Humanity is not a virus.

[Sinue_v2]

I really wish these people would just shut the fuck up. Yeah, I saw the Matrix too. It was good, but it wasn't anything new and profound. Just because it blew your mind with centuries old philosophy you've been too much of an illiterate fuck up to this point to read, doesn't mean Agent Smith was right when he said that.

This meme has really gotten to me lately. Bunch of buttholes sitting around on the net or at a party that think they know what humanity is and is not. I'll tell you what we are. We're a fucking species of primate, and our behaviors are molded by our early primate ancestors as well as our tribal hunter-gatherer forefathers.

Show me... come on... show me ONE fucking iota of intelligence by at least correctly identifying what our species is. No shit we don't live in balance with nature - NOTHING does. It only appears that way because we're seeing the results of competition - but cannot somehow recognize that competition for resources itself as the mechanism for that balance. We're not a virus... we're a invasive species. We're no different than the Brown Tree Snake in Guam, the Cane Toad in Australia, or the Kudzu vine in the southern US. These species aren't instinctively finding equilibrium - because that's not an instinct. The instinct is to use up any available resources, because that means survival and prorogation of your species. Those listed above don't have natural predation, food shortages, or climate barriers to the spreading of their population... and by virtue of our intelligence, neither do we, because if an environment doesn't suit us - we can change it. We wear thick clothes and build well insulated houses in cold climates.. we farm and domesticate livestock to overcome food problems.

Yeah yeah... we use up all the resources we have, like oil, and then go to war and watch society go down the crapper. We would be stupid to allow that to happen, but that's not a consequence of being outside of nature - that IS NATURE. If we outstrip our resources then war, famine, and a loss of basic infrastructure we call society will depopulate humanity to a level that is more sustainable by those resources. THERE'S your god-damned balance.

We have another evolutionary behavior that we've picked up. It's called altruism. A need to help those in trouble, even outside of our own species. We have taken conscious and fully rationalized steps to at least -TRY- to reduce our impact on the environments. We can do a helluva lot better, but we're the only species on this planet that CAN predict the consequences of it's actions... that can understand and modify it's own behavior... so let's start fucking doing it instead of sitting around whining about how evil humanity is to some Captain Planet inspired anthropomorphizing Earth goddess Gaia bullshit.

And we can start by putting that "Humanity is a Virus" meme to fucking rest and realize who and what we really are.

Grrrr!

[Mysterious-G]

What is the point of this topic, anyway?
Matrix is a movie. A movie. You just stated the obvious.

[Zyrusticae]

You're right. Humanity isn't a virus.

The proper analogy would be a bacterial infection, and the body of the Earth contains many thousands of immune system devices designed to keep the population of the infection in check. Sadly, as those systems (which include such lovely things as natural predators and deadly viruses) are failing to contain the growth of the population, the planet is now in a state of decline and will eventually wither and die, taking the human race with it.

Being a parasite can only get you so far...

[Sinue_v2]

Smug fuckholes who boost their ego by kicking the human species for merely acting in accordance to it's nature. People that think humanity is outside of nature, rather than still an active component - both affecting and affected by. Anyone who actually thinks that movie was right when Smith says humanity is a virus, and don't miss a single opportunity (or force an opportunity) to point that quote out as if it actually had some kind of bearing on reality.

Sorry, I deal with a lot hippies in the crowds I run with. Most are good people, if a bit stinky, they just need to have their heads pulled out of their asses once in a while. I have no problems with someone who has an opposing view on the matter - as Hypatia said "Cherish your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than to not think at all". Problem is, some of these people aren't thinking - rightly or wrongly - they're just parroting Hollywood tripe and think it gives them some kind of moral fucking highground.

You're right. Humanity isn't a virus.

The proper analogy would be a bacterial infection, and the body of the Earth contains many thousands of immune system devices designed to keep the population of the infection in check. Sadly, as those systems (which include such lovely things as natural predators and deadly viruses) are failing to contain the growth of the population, the planet is now in a state of decline and will eventually wither and die, taking the human race with it.

Being a parasite can only get you so far...

We're not bacteria, and we're not parasites. There's no need to make analogies. We are an invasive species. Our original environment was sub-Saharan Africa as it was about 200,000 years ago. Some of us (whities) aren't optimally suited for that environment anymore due to the lack of melatonin, but it is the closest we have to a natural environment. We used our intelligence to conquer environments humanity normally cannot live in.... such as the northern climes. Get rid of all tools, all clothes, fire, all everything which our intelligence has us to develop as a means to cope... and try to live through a Canadian winter.

the planet is now in a state of decline and will eventually wither and die, taking the human race with it.

You know, forest fires are a necessary disaster. It cleans out the old growth and debris, and some species have come to depend on it for their germination. The problem is, we build our houses in the paths of these fires - and up until recently didn't have any protocol for pre-emptive burning. We had a strict policy of fire supression, and still do in some places. This causes the debris on the ground to build up - and when it finally does catch fire, it burns far hotter and more ferociously. It steralizes the soil, rather than replenishing it. Analogy.

It could also be possible that the time of mammals is at an end, and humanity is the cause of the extinction. There's been several of them in the past, some of which far more devastatin than anything we're thought to be bringing about. For instance, the oxygen catastrophy. As photosynthesis improved and modified, it started putting off oxygen as a waste product. At the time, life on Earth was adapted for a Carbon rich atmosphere. The oxygen waste was highly toxic, and it lead to a massive extinction event - leaving only those animals who could incorporate oxygen to survive. Oxygen, of course, then served as a booster for metabolism - which is one of the proposed causes of the Cambrian Explosion. Even after which, though, oxygen still plauged many animals which ahd since made the transition to land. High concentrations of oxygen in the atmosphere would ignite when lightning struck, causing explosions and frequent fires. Our current oxygen levels are far lower, but still rather high compared to the environment life first evolved in.

Humanity has killed off most of the megafauna - either directly or as a result of our actions. It makes sense too, because the predators which fed on these megafauna had a tendancy to prey on us as well. Now, it's mostly smaller creatures that survive. Indeed, it's generally the animals which have either learned to live with humanity, be domesticated by humanity, or live parasitically off of humanity that are having the best run. Seagulls, Pidgeons, Crows, Rats, Canines, Felines, Oxen, Bovine, Sheep, Roaches, Mosquitos, etc. Most of these animals which are thriving are extremely adaptable to human society, either evolving quickly to become immune to our poisons (roaches), or modifying their behavior with learned skills (crows). We've routed quite a few species from their niches, but opened up many more.

One thing I notice is that I never really see people harsh on the K/T bolide which marked the end of the Dinosaurs for "killing the Earth". Usually, because in the later body plans which evolved after that event - humanity eventually arose. We owe that asteroid our existence. Yet, we could be the forestfire which heralds in the new biosphere - this time favoring fast adaptation both genetically/behaviorally - and we're just plain evil for it. It could be argued that the asteroid was merely a natural disaster - it wasn't intelligent and didn't know what it was doing. Fair enough. Humanity evolved from nature, we are a part of nature, and therefore what we do to the environment IS natural - even if detrimental. It could also be argued that we weren't really much in the way of intelligence in regards to our actions on the environment until really just the last century or so. Perhaps even still.

I don't think we should encourage extinction, not by a long shot. I'm just saying that we're one hell of an environmental stress - and environmental attrition is a major mover of evolution. So our actions, from an outside perspective, couldn't really be seen as either right or wrong, good or evil. We're just a product of nature interacting with nature. Personally, however, that's another matter. On the personal level we incorporate altrusim, morals, and empathy. These creatures evolved from the same common ancestor as us... evolved alongside us... as the the first sapient and highly intelligent species, I think we do owe it to them to do what we can within reason to preserve and protect them - for our sake as well as theirs.

I just think people should step outside a bit, and look at the issue objectively for a bit - before forming subjective opinions and concepts.

[Zyrusticae]

I know it's needless to come up with analogies. I just felt like it because it's highly entertaining to do so. (And frankly, the analogy is very apt.)

Either way, I don't really care. What's it all matter? It only matters if you focus on such things, really, and no matter what we're rather stuck with what we've got, so why bother thinking about it?

[BlaizeYES]

Smug fuckholes who boost their ego by kicking the human species for merely acting in accordance to it's nature. People that think humanity is outside of nature, rather than still an active component - both affecting and affected by. Anyone who actually thinks that movie was right when Smith says humanity is a virus, and don't miss a single opportunity (or force an opportunity) to point that quote out as if it actually had some kind of bearing on reality.

Sorry, I deal with a lot hippies in the crowds I run with. Most are good people, if a bit stinky, they just need to have their heads pulled out of their asses once in a while. I have no problems with someone who has an opposing view on the matter - as Hypatia said "Cherish your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than to not think at all". Problem is, some of these people aren't thinking - rightly or wrongly - they're just parroting Hollywood tripe and think it gives them some kind of moral fucking highground.

lol, thats like most people's thinking. everyone's "original thoughts" are inspired by either a movie or a book or some other concept that's been around for hundreds of years. hardly anyone does any critical thinking anymore, has any genuine curiosity that wasnt first sparked by an already existing idea... and the most successful medium today is through movies with most people. thats why actors get so smug and arrogant about "how groundbreaking" they are.

and next motivational speech, please dont badmouth captain planet. seriously dude thats not even funny... that childhood memory will NOT be tainted. sure, that south african boy had a useless power of "heart," but they had an episode where a kid with AIDS gets his house burned down by an angry mob. shouldnt that mean anything?


but yea, do you think you're being a little TOO ambitious with humanity? as long as we still have our primitive instincts, we're going to shit on the world. basically every action we perform is somehow connected to those same urges to shit on everything, to survive. emotions are primitive, too, regardless of how "complex" your anger towards something may be. getting angry at these people for not thinking and just quoting movies just shows that you arent ready to lead a progressive brigade to "change the world and usher in a new generation of intelligence and understanding." we're just not ready. we're trying to push for constant adaptation, but people just really arent ready at all. and matrix isnt the only movie here, like 2/3s of movies have some philosophical idea they rape

[R3volver]

humanity is a virus. i hope you all die. thanks for reading.

[Sinue_v2]

I know it's needless to come up with analogies. I just felt like it because it's highly entertaining to do so. (And frankly, the analogy is very apt.)

Either way, I don't really care. What's it all matter? It only matters if you focus on such things, really, and no matter what we're rather stuck with what we've got, so why bother thinking about it?

I don't quite agree that your analogy is apt, but I do agree that it is fun to make analogies. I'll make another one in a moment.

As for what's it matter? Because these kinds of people vote, and they make up a part of society. A society that I have to live in. I'd rather the public thoughts on a subject be shaped by accurate information (to the best of our ability) rather than catchy slogans and misconceptions. Especially when they turn people into smug assholes. I guess I could become a teacher, if I didn't share W.C. Fields sentiments towards children... and small dogs.... and bourbon. It just tends to get under the skin after a while, and well... this IS a rants forum...

Why bother thinking about it? This is all we have? You're right, on the latter. But just because it's all we have - doesn't mean that's all it can be. Say you have a pile of legos sitting in front of you. All you have is the Legos. Change the configuration though.. and you have a helicopter, a house, a death ray, a life-sized statue of Snoop-Dog. It's a double analogy for the environment... because nothing we create is artificial or non-naturally occurring. Even plastics. We're arranging the molecules differently, sure, but they were here to begin with. They came into that configuration by the manipulation of a product of a natural system. Aside from scale and complexity, how is what we're doing any different than a Beaver building a dam, or a sparrow building a nest? Simply gathering raw materials from the surrounding environment and reconfiguring them to suit a different purpose.

everyone's "original thoughts" are inspired by either a movie or a book or some other concept that's been around for hundreds of years.

True. There is nothing new under the sun. Society doesn't generally progress through originality, but through imitation, combination, and refinement. I think it was Einstein who said, "The secret to originality is knowing how to hide your sources". This is why scientists are said to "stand on the shoulders of giants". Even those we regard as giants were standing on the shoulders of others. Discoveries and increases in our knowledge aren't usually made by a clever idea - they're usually made by accident or as a direct observation of the data.

I don't mean that I expect everyone to have completely unique views utter different from everyone else's... but rather just that they should be formed by the wanderings of a genuinely inquisitive mind, rather than just parroted with no regard to accuracy or accountability because they make you feel good.

[Solstis]

"We're killing the Earth."

How? What is with this generic anime bullshit? We definitely are killing off everything on the surface of the planet (and possibly below), but the planet itself? No.

More on topic, definitely digging the perspective you brought to the discussion (Humanity as an invasive species). Highly logical.

[Kylie]

Wow, yet another rant I was geared towards disagreeing with that turned out to be about something else. I agree with the meme in the respect that people are the cause of a lot of crap, but a movie would never be able to influence my perspective on that, especially not one I've never seen all the way through. From my understanding of the movie though, it's just a bunch of sci-fi fantasy stuff that I hope no one seriously believes. I met a guy that claimed he did though. >_>