Newmans suck

[Pillan]

So anyways then, how gimp would I be playing a newman hunter then? That's what I want to know. We can all crunch numbers but actually playing, dodging/blocking, chaining for higher damage, how much worse would I be? Would it be OHKOs from monsters my level? Would it take ages to kill a single thing?

The balance between racial performance as Hunter is still set to be about the same as PSU. If you want a number, I'd just assume you'll be 20-30% weaker than the equivalent Beast or Cast. On a kills over time analysis, that means there's a good chance that the extra ATP could be useless when enemies are at or below your level. And there's no chance of getting one shotted unless you're fighting those big cat things on Moatoob or standing in a Nano Dragon/Delbiter beam.

[iSelphy]

The balance between racial performance as Hunter is still set to be about the same as PSU. If you want a number, I'd just assume you'll be 20-30% weaker than the equivalent Beast or Cast. On a kills over time analysis, that means there's a good chance that the extra ATP could be useless when enemies are at or below your level. And there's no chance of getting one shotted unless you're fighting those big cat things on Moatoob or standing in a Nano Dragon/Delbiter beam.

So 20-30% weaker. I think I can live with that. Like I said, I'm not a number cruncher and I don't care for optimal playstyle. I like newman, I like hunter. If I can survive, albeit a bit weaker and slower than the best hunter, I'm game. I just wanted to make sure that when I get to 150 or something, I'm not throwing my psp out the window because of 0's from too low ATP and getting owned in the face because of low DEF and HP.

[Pillan]

Forgive me as I missed your post earlier.

Different view, i bet, or may be you rarely play higher level mission
what level are you now? and you online or solo?

102, Braver 15 currently. And, yeah, you're right. I rarely play online, or fight enemies more than 20 or 30 levels higher than me. And I've completely ignored Magashi Eradication, challenge mode, and getting the true ending on story.

But I suppose the next step is for me to go ahead and point out why none of that is important in this argument.

The first reason is that I always assume we're talking about general combat, not some idealized situation (i.e., enemies 70 levels higher than your character) where the rules of survival change. But, going by that circumstance, I don't really have enough (or any) experience playing human female and Newman male to determine if the extra 1 PP per second is a huge deal under the harsh conditions. (Remember, it's 43 versus 42, or an extra first move of Assault Crush every half minute.)

The second is that regardless of your character level, their always exists some enemy level at which there is no difference in real game play. This is true outside of the extremities, of course, since you can't get enemies below 1 or above 200. My standard assumption is enemies 10-20 levels higher than you, but that seems to be off by the time I hit 100, hence the 20-30 levels I mentioned above. (Honestly, I was probably a bit off earlier just because I was leveling all 4 classes to 10.)

The third is that I don't consider play style, player preferences, or even performance among different players whenever I make a statement. This is because in every individual circumstance these are all held constant (since it's the same guy switching between Newman male and human female, in this case). If I was to do that, I could say something like "Just play Cast, only use 2 hand weapons and get good at Just/Exact Guard." But that's a rather boring answer, don't you think? So I prefer to list the merits of each, weigh them against one another, and let the reader decide whether or not it's worthwhile.

Not to mention that now, I m lv 144/30 BR, when I change to FO, I will need to rely on melee to charge up much more than newman. I will see if PP-regen + PP-hiboost + PP-boost can help me or not.

It's already documented that you (as human female) get around 25% more PP recovery with all 3 equipped (about the same as a Cast female or an extra Foie every 2 seconds). However, I don't really know if that's worth 5 out of 8 slots. Also don't forget that the difference between Newman female and human female regeneration is just 3 PP. Or an extra Foie every 7 seconds.

[THOTH]

Few thoughts...

The reason why I was bashing newman hunters is because the class hunter has such a huge negative factor for TP. Rangers aren't as bad, meaning newmans and female humans can use techs without it being a total waste of time. For whatever reason they decided to make hunters the most extreme class of the 4 which takes a huge sacrifice in ATA and TP for the DEF and ATP stats. A female newman hunter will still have more ATP then all of the bravers....but much less TP.

Saying newman bravers are better then humans? I can argue that. As said before... male newmans and female humans have the same ATA, and a slight difference in PP, and slight difference in TP. PP is less important because unlike newman's human's are actually able to melee without it being a complete waste of time. Basically, comparing a female human braver to a male newman is like saying "So I can have an evasive tech gunner, or I can have a tech gunner of the same strength that can also melee"

Which would you have?

Female newman bravers might not be a bad option... they have the evasive advantage, and much better TP and ATA...still, like I said initially, PP would be a bit problematic with this combo because both techs and guns are going to drain PP just as fast as ranger/force classes, but both will be doing less damage here.

I think the best use of a newman is a female ranger with the goal being tech gunning. Rangers don't have as bad of a TP hit as hunters do, and their accuracy is on par with cast counterparts. Their PP would enable more power bullets possibly out damaging casts overall who might have to switch to PP saving bullets. Plus rangers have evasion rates that can make use of newman's naturally high stat. Male newmans as rangers fit the same arguement as bavers though...why not be a female human and have some pp saving melee?

And as for forces... I'l continue to argue that a force needs to be able to melee at some point for PP issues and DPS. Female humans are probably the best force, as well as female beasts depending on preferences. Not saying newman are BAD forces, just not the best. Also the survival ratings of newman forces? Yeesh. Defenses play a much bigger role this time around.

Has any one figured out evasion? If a male newman braver 200/30 with evasion+ ability and some evasive units+deband has 75% of attacks missing... I take back all my arguements about newmans sucking, and would say they make great rangers and bravers for both genders.

[THOTH]

In edition...it should be noted human male bravers get almost newman quality EVP...hrmm....

[Arika]

It's already documented that you (as human female) get around 25% more PP recovery with all 3 equipped (about the same as a Cast female or an extra Foie every 2 seconds). However, I don't really know if that's worth 5 out of 8 slots. Also don't forget that the difference between Newman female and human female regeneration is just 3 PP. Or an extra Foie every 7 seconds.

yup, just saw it on the wiki, and found that you waste 5 ability slot on PP and u only get regen rate of that normal female cast =_= really not worth it!.

That is why I would use female newman if i could change it without restart from lv 1.


As you mention the word "for the general combat"
It is just depend about player style. For example, your general is to play on free mission with enemy around same level. But my general part is to play harder mission. that is the reason why we would see things different.

[Izuna]

If you're caring about the power difference when playing multiplayer it doesn't matter -- Cast/Human/Newman; male or female hunters don't change much.

When solo, humans and newmans make pretty much equal bravers practically, of course newmans don't get to use the dark mirage blast, but as bravers, you'll balance the loss by picking up an extra Star or something.

I haven't got my new character anywhere near 200, but remembering playing as a male human braver/hunter/ranger all non multi mode only missions became easy. Soling those multi mode missions (especially the ones with the level 200 astarks) would be really difficult with the less health. Though... those mission weren't made for soloing.

Race doesn't matter so much when it comes to casual play with hunters; a Cast/Beast braver will just be a slightly weaker braver.

[Pillan]

Race doesn't matter so much when it comes to casual play with hunters; a Cast/Beast braver will just be a slightly weaker braver.

I'll have to ask you to explain your reasoning on the second part of that statement, as you've stumped me.

Given that the only shared weakness between the two is in tech output, which everyone has been complaining about as under-par anyway, I don't really see an issue. That and this game rebalanced their stats so Cast versus Newman TP is the same as Beast versus Newman ATP. You can't argue melee since they're both better at that alongside Braver's ATA bonus. You can argue range, but that just hurts Beast. You can't argue traps because those are level based. You can argue EVP, but then I'd remind you that its also the second highest HP and DFP, reducing the human advantage over Cast and increasing the Beast advantage over everything else. Their MST is the second lowest, so, coupled with armor, HP probably has the bigger effect.

At this point, the Cast trade off looks like slightly less survivability for more of everything else and the Beast trade off looks like slightly less ranged damage for more of everything else when either is compared to human. Tell me if I'm missing something.

[Deragonite]

I'll have to ask you to explain your reasoning on the second part of that statement, as you've stumped me.

Given that the only shared weakness between the two is in tech output, which everyone has been complaining about as under-par anyway, I don't really see an issue. That and this game rebalanced their stats so Cast versus Newman TP is the same as Beast versus Newman ATP. You can't argue melee since they're both better at that alongside Braver's ATA bonus. You can argue range, but that just hurts Beast. You can't argue traps because those are level based. You can argue EVP, but then I'd remind you that its also the second highest HP and DFP, reducing the human advantage over Cast and increasing the Beast advantage over everything else. Their MST is the second lowest, so, coupled with armor, HP probably has the bigger effect.

At this point, the Cast trade off looks like slightly less survivability for more of everything else and the Beast trade off looks like slightly less ranged damage for more of everything else when either is compared to human. Tell me if I'm missing something.

Humans have the best hair !

[THOTH]

Humans also have the best default clothing....there's going to be so many human males it's not even funny just because IMO their default outfit looks better then every thing else in the game.