Fire EX traps - bug fix?

[SolomonGrundy]

you've got to be kidding me. The issue...again is this:

Burn traps have the damage applied in such a way that the burn DoT does not have a chance to apply damage (because it is reset). Given that this trap does not disable enemies in any way, AND given that the PT cannot atatck while the EX trap is going off, this appears to be a a bug, or at least an oversight.

Several fixes have been proposed.

[Darki]

I'd say more an oversight than a bug. An "easy" way to solve the problem for me would be that reapplying the SE wouldn't "break" the ticks somehow. I dunno how to explain this, but would just be:

- You burn a target (easy example: Foie). The target starts getting damage over time. Let's say it would burn for 20 secs if you left it as it is.

- You keep using Foie but by chance you don't burn again the target for a few secs...

- Then after 6 secs you reapply the SE. This means that you'd reset the time counter, so, it would "keep" the SE for another 20 secs.

The idea is more like that you "refresh" the timer for the original SE but without "overwritting" the whole effect('cept the "Skill usage" counter so buffs/debuffs level normally) . This way, the only impact in the game as I see it would be that Megistar would kick you even if you spam it (and that would be done only during buff levelling, so it's not relevant to the mission), or, in general, that any SE that you could apply wouldn't mess with previous instances of the SE, letting, for example, all DoT SEs to cause damage even if you overwrite it faster than the ticks. This wouldn't have any impact in any kind of way for normal weapons, unless you're "lucky" enough to burn/poison/infect a monster with a Rifle/Machinegun on every attack, something hardly possible, I wouldn't consider that overpowered. The only element that would profit from this would be Fire EX traps.

For "knocking out" SEs like Freeze, Stun or Sleep, that would mean that you won't "break" the ice and freeze the monster over and over with EX traps, just that you freeze the guy and it stays like that as long as the SE is reapplied. This would only affect to frozen monster, the only SE that keeps the monster in place even if you hit it (I mean, if you use a blowback on a frozen monster and you don't break the ice, it will stay there, unlike stun) and Freeze EX traps keeps monsters very inmobilized anyways, it wouldn't make any difference. that we could call overpowered.

For the rest of the SEs, it wouldn't make any difference.

[darthplagis]

while i agree with you solomon, i just dont see it being as big of a deal as you make it to be

yeah burn traps in most situations are underpowered, and given that the status effect being damage based and also the SE system we have does not allow the damage from all SE to apply to the burn trap (ice still carries the freeze on, as it is an instant effect. stun also but remember both of these traps DO knock the previous SE off and re-apply same as a burn, just burns take longer to tick).

maybe one way round the situation would be to make burn traps have the leangth of burn post trap as a standard burn but with virus power? since virus dies off quicker but deals higher damage.

but again, i dont see them as being a big issue. it is annoying thet they are overall slightly weaker but then they are just an added bonus that protrqansers get. and yes i do know they are 'trap masters' and that is their job..... but like i said previously, one way to counter the downfall of EX traps would be to allow regeneration of them after a stage like what happens with HP. maybe like 3 traps and you buy the rest?

[Darki]

I don't think there's any need to make a special "EX burn" SE for the traps. I think the fair thing would be to allow somehow the trap to use the ticks of the normal SE, that plus the trap damage would make burn trap EX a very good trap for PT as it would be the "damaging" trap while the others two would be the "disabling" traps.

I believe my idea is simple and easy enough for it to work. Just make SEs so they don't "overwrite" but to "refresh", affecting only the remaining time for the already applied effect, thus not interrupting the ticks.

[SolomonGrundy]

it's not like, a HUGE issue (after all, it only affects ProTransers), but given PTs are underutlilzed, I thought that a fix might have come along in the YEAR I was away

[darthplagis]

ah come on we have barely had updates never mind fixes :P

[Max B]

Who cares Protranser + Fire Traps= Lag Fest

[Darki]

Only if you play on crapbox 360 or with a low end graphics card, and nowadays a card that doesn't support PSU doesn't support most good games that come out recently.

[Zoamel_Gustav]

you've got to be kidding me.

I am not kidding you.

The issue...again is this:
Burn traps have the damage applied in such a way that the burn DoT does not have a chance to apply damage (because it is reset).

I disagree with that being the issue. By front-loading a stackable burn effect, the total damage is doubled. I doubt the current Burn Trap EX is only worth half a Stun Trap EX. One of the reasons I am reluctant to the idea of doubling is scaling. In my opinion, a fair progression should be logarithmic, not linear. This means there should be diminished returns. Damage over time effects are linear, so I feel they should be short term, supportive effects.

I view damage over time as the opposite of regeneration. Regeneration helps with the healing, but is not the main healing ability. HP auto recovery outhealing Resta or trimates in the long term would be overpowered. Burn outdamaging attacks in the long term would be overpowered.

this appears to be a a bug, or at least an oversight.

Status effect reapplication is not a bug or oversight. Uses of status effect reapplication have already been listed. The issue is more of balance than of mechanics.

I think the fair thing would be to allow somehow the trap to use the ticks of the normal SE, that plus the trap damage would make burn trap EX a very good trap for PT as it would be the "damaging" trap while the others two would be the "disabling" traps.

In my opinion, it may seem too damaging, I am not sure though. As long as Burn Trap EXs generate supportive damage figures rather than primary damage figures, then I would consider that fair.

I believe my idea is simple and easy enough for it to work. Just make SEs so they don't "overwrite" but to "refresh", affecting only the remaining time for the already applied effect, thus not interrupting the ticks.

Minor issue: perpetually full Giresta, unrefreshable Dizas rings, and unrefreshable Rentis rings. Unresettable Giresta weakens the usage of Resta. Unresettable ring counts weakens Dizas and Rentis.

[Darki]

I see those kinda too damaging too, but, for me it's fair since you can only carry 10 of those traps and many strong enemies are fireproof, like Carriguines, or simply, bosses. Supportive damage doesn't mean "to do a little damage to help the others to kill faster" only, it can mean "to clean thee room out of trash mob so the big ones are exposed". With this I compare EX traps with whips, maybe you won't take easily a Carriguine with one, but you can clean a mob of any number in not much time with a good one. Whips are supposed to be supportive damage too, and they do wonders on bosses.

it's true you can go out of the mission and get more traps, but i isn't like if you pop one of your 10 Photon Charges, replenish your weaapon and keep doing strong PAs. I do see this as a good option, I mean, I doubt there are many missions you could clear only with 10 Fire EX traps, and if they are, well, good for PT.

Apart from that, what you said about Giresta, Dizas or Rentis, those are particular issues that can be handled easily. Same that if you use a different level buff you'd overweite the previous one, you can make them to work as they do now, not only refreshing the "timer" but also the effect so you can't stack 3 hours of giresta'ed ticks and be godlike in a mission.