Fire EX traps - bug fix?

[Darki]

For me 76% damage for burnable enemies is as excessive as to 2 Jabroga'ed kill Boss. The difference is that you can do that overtkill for 10 times when you can Jabroga anything as much as you want if you carry enough axes and all photon charges...

I mean, many PAs in the game make more than 100% total damage on many enemies already, why is that so wrong.

I'd suggest to change the SEs so they don't "reapply" unless it's a different SE or last one divests. So, first hit of Burn EX trap will cause burn, then next ones don't unless the monster stops burning.

That would shorten the time the monster stays burnt but I guess it would make it stronger WHILE the trap is working.

[darthplagis]

well i am not a fan of jabroga, and i welcome the accuracy change too but yeah the diffrence in the axe v trap thing, axes are weapons where as traps are just that traps. weapons have variables (element and grind even down to ranks) that all make up the damage, traps dont. granted we PT spend more on traps than we do on our weapons

if you could level up your trap usage like a PA then that would be great, but in that system it would be best to regenerate 3 traps (just an example) of each EX at the start of the mission just like HP does, as the whole point of PT is the traps. and scaling damage would work that way.

[SolomonGrundy]

also JA-broken works well on bosses, enemies that cannot be burned, etc, etc, etc.

Fire EX traps leave the PT vulnerable for aquite a while (Since you cannot exit the EX trap or the effect will stop working)

[milranduil]

You do realize in order to make it so the burn lasts during the trap, you are fundamentally changing how any status effect would be applied. If you get lucky on a Jarba lets say using Burning Shot 41+ to inflict Burn lvl 5 and it starts ticking for 3-4 ticks, and you reapply it again by the 5th tick, sure you've negated that last tick of 6% enemy HP, but it's also going to tick ANOTHER 5 times which is an addition 30% HP taken off adding to a total of 50-55% off the enemy in under 18 seconds. Now by doing what you're suggesting, one would have to wait until the first burn is completely gone, THEN get lucky enough to reapply the status effect. Also, buffs would no longer be levelable outside of using them in parties...these would take WEEKS of playing in full groups just to get to 41+ as it's also just a status effect, and one would need to wait for it to completely wear off before casting again would actually level up the buff. Something to keep in mind...

[Zoamel_Gustav]

For me 76% damage for burnable enemies is as excessive as to 2 Jabroga'ed kill Boss.

Jabroga is excessive, and not the intended baseline standard. Weapon skill attacks scale based on dependencies on many different stats, levels, items, etc. Traps ignore many such dependencies. Traps are in a supportive indirect role, like RCSMs.

I'd suggest to change the SEs so they don't "reapply" unless it's a different SE or last one divests. So, first hit of Burn EX trap will cause burn, then next ones don't unless the monster stops burning.

Status effect reapplication is not a bug. If status effects could not be reapplied, status effect inflicting types and support types would be weakened.
If status effects could not be reapplied:
Status effect proc rates would be reduced as players would have to wait for the current status effect durations to run out before even being allowed to try reapplying them.
Buffs and debuffs are status effects, they would not be able to be refreshed before their durations run out. They would not be able to be active continuously.
Buff parties would no longer work.

That would shorten the time the monster stays burnt but I guess it would make it stronger WHILE the trap is working.

If the burn from the first trap hit cannot be overwritten, there will be the first set of five ticks of burn, then the eleventh trap hit will start a second set of five ticks for a total of ten ticks.

This means, changing the game mechanics by removing status effect reapplication would improve Burn Trap EXs by adding five ticks of burn, in exchange for weakening all status effect users, including buffs, Protranser's guns, and Stun Trap EXs.

[SolomonGrundy]

the current sitation is that fire EX traps are poor in comparison to stun and ice EX traps.

If the damage tic from the traps were changes, then the burn would at least have a chance to tic for damage once

the current behavior:
t = 0: trap explodes, and enemies are set to burn (100% chance)
t= 1 second: first burn tic, AND first damage tic. Damage tic happens first so burn damage is not applied, new burn status applied (100% chance)
t= 2 second: first (new) burn tic AND second damage tic. Damage tic happens first so burn damage is not applied, new burn status applied (100% chance)
etc.

new method
t = 0: trap explodes, and enemies are set to burn (100% chance)
t = 1 second: 1st burn tic gets applied, NO DAMAGE TIC
t= 1.5 seconds: 1st damage tic get applied - enemies are set to burn (100% chance), burn is overwritten
t= 2 seconds: nothing (burn was overwritten and t=1.5)
t = 2.5 seconds: 1st burn tic gets applied
t = 3.0 seonds: 2nd damage tic get applied - enemies are set to burn (100% chance), burn is overwritten

and so on.

Why is this broken or overpowered?

[milranduil]

the current sitation is that fire EX traps are poor in comparison to stun and ice EX traps.

If the damage tic from the traps were changes, then the burn would at least have a chance to tic for damage once

the current behavior:
t = 0: trap explodes, and enemies are set to burn (100% chance)
t= 1 second: first burn tic, AND first damage tic. Damage tic happens first so burn damage is not applied, new burn status applied (100% chance)
t= 2 second: first (new) burn tic AND second damage tic. Damage tic happens first so burn damage is not applied, new burn status applied (100% chance)
etc.

new method
t = 0: trap explodes, and enemies are set to burn (100% chance)
t = 1 second: 1st burn tic gets applied, NO DAMAGE TIC
t= 1.5 seconds: 1st damage tic get applied - enemies are set to burn (100% chance), burn is overwritten
t= 2 seconds: nothing (burn was overwritten and t=1.5)
t = 2.5 seconds: 1st burn tic gets applied
t = 3.0 seonds: 2nd damage tic get applied - enemies are set to burn (100% chance), burn is overwritten

and so on.

Why is this broken or overpowered?

You're trying to change how the whole status effect system would work in the game just because a single trap is underpowered....think about what you're suggesting at the sacrifice of a vast amount of other things.

[Darki]

Honestly I didn't even think about that. My mistake. I guess seeing it that way, it really does the difference.

The problem is that actually is DPS-wiser to pop a DoT SE G trap (like, Virus/Poison/Burn G traps) and then place a Stun/Freeze EX trap, than using a Fire EX trap (best is Virus as it works with Stun and Freeze and does good damage, but carrying all 3 will grant you to have enough to use them freely). Doing so, you're actually getting the SE damage PLUS trap damage PLUS inmovilization.

Don't take me wrong, I'm a good Protranser. I carry all sorts of traps when I play on my PT and I tend to combo'ing normal traps with EX to cause multiple SEs at the same time, but the thing here is that Burn EX trap is bassically useless compared to the combos I explained. If you pop a burn G + Stun EX + Burn G, you're doing more damage per second than with Fire EX trap.

But then, what could be a balanced solution? changing SE re-applying would trash the game (I'm a techer and I don't wanna spend years levelling buffs and debuffs, I assure you), but Burn EX traps could have some love.

Maybe if the trap didn't cause Burn in ALL the hits, just one each two/three trap hits, that would make the Burn status to apply correctly but the trap not messing with the tick, and also new enemies that go into the area would get burned as well.

[SolomonGrundy]

You're trying to change how the whole status effect system would work in the game just because a single trap is underpowered....think about what you're suggesting at the sacrifice of a vast amount of other things.

perhaps you did not read carefully. The ONLY thing that would change is the timing of the damage on a single trap.. The SE effect would work just as it does today, both is application, and in the timing of the damage tic.

[Zoamel_Gustav]

If the damage tic from the traps were changes, then the burn would at least have a chance to tic for damage once

...

new method
t = 0: trap explodes, and enemies are set to burn (100% chance)
t = 1 second: 1st burn tic gets applied, NO DAMAGE TIC
t= 1.5 seconds: 1st damage tic get applied - enemies are set to burn (100% chance), burn is overwritten
t= 2 seconds: nothing (burn was overwritten and t=1.5)
t = 2.5 seconds: 1st burn tic gets applied
t = 3.0 seonds: 2nd damage tic get applied - enemies are set to burn (100% chance), burn is overwritten

and so on.

Burn status effect applies every two seconds, not every one second. That's double the current speed. At that speed, 25 burn ticks will reduce all burnable creatures to one HP in 25 seconds. At that speed, Burn is overpowered compared to Virus and Poison.

I don't think the game counts in increments of half seconds either. Slowing down the trap hit speeds will noticeably change stun and ice trap EXs as well.

The ONLY thing that would change is the timing of the damage on a single trap.. The SE effect would work just as it does today, both is application, and in the timing of the damage tic.

Consider how changing Burn will change other status effects. Consider how changing EX trap workings will change other EX traps. Changes are not in isolation, they are connected.

Why is this broken or overpowered?

Breaks in interaction and measures of power are by comparison. Anga Jabroga is not a standard for comparison. To "kick the crap out of everything else" is not the intent or balanced.