Here's the one thing that PSO2 has to nail to interest me, and (probably) you.

[Niered]

I'm not writing this game off based on Sonic Teams past failures, be they many, and I'm not here to start that argument either, I'm posting for the first time outside of the "Off Topic" forum just to point out one thing that I think is incredibly important.

While the rest of you are discussing balance, character customization, mag inclusion, item synthesis, and etc, and while all of those things ARE very important, they are not, to me at least, the most important aspect of giving PSO a proper sequel. The lack of proper implementation of those systems is also not the biggest thing that drove me away from PSU, or PSP, or that makes me so disinterested in PSP2.

The single, greatest thing in PSO, the one thing that so few games, and even less JRPG's get right?

Mood and Setting.

It took me a long time to actually realize that that was what turned me off to PSU after trying to convince myself I liked it for two years. Sure, PSU has a LOT of problems, and so do its offshoots, but the fact is, its combat is nearly so clunky as PSO's, and it has a lot of cool ideas (Job systems for instance).

So why was it that I couldn't enjoy PSU? Why was it, that even Phantasy Star Zero, a game that was a barely updated version of the original PSO, was so much more fun (discounting the comparatively small amount of replay value) than PSU, when I readily stated its many age-related problems?

The answer finally hit me eventually, its all about the mood, and setting of the original game.

Now, lets get one thing straight, PSO had a barebones story, that much is true. There was some hidden depth in the sidequests, and I actually really liked that system (for those that have played it, Demon's Souls pulls the same thing) because it appeals to people like myself, that are interested in the crafted universe, and to people that only play games for the game part.

But their was one part of that story that every player of PSO, no matter how well learned they were on the backstory of the game, came away with.

You are a lone Hunter (possibly with 3 friends), and you are investigating a hostile alien planet where a mysterious incident occurred that wiped out thousands of colonists in a single fell swoop. Investigate.

Now lets compare that to what the player is made aware of in a short amount of playtime in PSU:

You are one of a large group of glorified bounty hunters that are (generally) sent into situations too small for the military to bother with. You will be policing 3 planets with active civilizations, being bombarded by an alien lifeform that can be easily eradicated with simple tools.

Which of those basic plot's interest you more? The one where you are all alone, investigating a mysterious incident, or the one where you're really just another soldier in an effort to contain a simple alien outbreak, that was thwarted already by a lone human male with virtually no combat training?

I think it's pretty obvious. I am much more motivated in the scenario that pits me against unknown odds in a hostile environment than I am in the latter.

But that's really not the only part of setting a mood or personality to your game, theres a lot more to it than that obviously. I think next on our list is a big one.

Music.

How many of you still listen to PSO's soundtrack? I wish I could say I was lying, but truth be told, I'm listening to a playlist on grooveshark of Ep.1-4 right now, as I type this. Strong, ambient tracks that sunk you into the world you were in, but didn't bore you, because they changed to fit the situation. Probably everyone that's played PSO can recognize an area on tune alone. It's really some great stuff.

By comparison, lets take PSU's soundtrack. I preordered PSU at a Gamestop, which gave me a soundtrack CD when I picked it up. I threw that CD away a month or two later, I don't think I even ripped the music to my PC. It was completely forgettable. It wasn't the worst thing I've ever heard (that title goes to PSU's theme song) but it wasn't interesting, or compelling really either.

I even know of a large group of people that switched the sound files on there PC version of PSU to play PSO's music! These were folks that played PSU long after I did, and genuinely liked it, but they still admitted to PSO having a much stronger soundtrack.

I can name a lot of the PSO BGM by title off the top of my head, but I couldn't give you the name of a single track in PSU.

Art and Design.

This one right here is the most important in my mind. Admittedly, I'm a bit biased, being a working illustrator (in game art nonetheless) but I think it's the one everybody can appreciate.

I'll give some screenshot examples:





Now those are two screenshots of the same area, good ol' Forest 1 and 2. But lets see the variety there, we've got one, that takes place during midday, taking you through a babbling stream and some small valley area's, and upon entering Forest 2, we now have a rainy, darker area with swamps that eventually breaks way into the outer edges of the dome.

Thats just the forest, the very first area you play in when you boot up the game. Now lets compare and contrast that too Linear Line, the very first area in PSU:



That's....it. Really, I could post more pics, but it would waste both our time, even if you go into the later missions of that area, its still the same generic, large spaces that really don't have any personality. Nothing unique about them. In fact, the most interesting rooms in the game are oftentimes the lobbies that break up missions, and theres no point to exploring them, and you arent fighting in them. They're glorified rest stops.

And thats not just the case for the first area of either game. Which is more compelling, the Ruins of PSO, or the Hive of PSU? In Ruins, we have several unique room types, and we get these massive views of the outside of this alien spaceship. In Hive, we get the same vaginal walls and ceilings for the entirety of the area. Meat curtains as far as the eye can see.

Now you can argue that PSO had less areas, and therefore more detail can be put into them. I have one simple response: Thats not an excuse. Quality over quantity, by far. I would rather play Mines a hundred times over than play one more run of ANY of the badly reskinned "Relics" sites in PSU. You know how I know that to be true? I still play PSO's Mines from time to time! But since giving up on PSU 2 years ago, I havent even felt a single need to touch any of the bland areas of PSU.

Another thing that fits into this category of art and design, is character design. I noticed the thread in which a lot of people are arguing over character customization and wether it should be more PSO or PSU based, honestly, I think the more customization, the better, but the fact is, the characters in PSO, looked like people that would do the job they were assigned to do. They looked like tough, almost western designed characters (with the exception of the FOnewm and FOnewhearl) that put a solid footing in the fantasy-sci-fi design of PSO. They had anime influences, sure, but they were utilitarian first and foremost.

PSU's character designs look decidedly more cliche anime, in fact, I could see virtually everyone of them fitting right in with the majority of the futuristic anime out there, and that is bad. I don't play games to see the same thing I saw last week on TV, I play games like PSO to be, and excuse the corniness of this, transported to a different place.

That's what PSO2 has to get right.

[Mike]

None of the above. They're all nice things to have but what are you going to be doing in the end? Grinding for weapons. And the best thing to have when grinding for weapons is good company. In other words, community. And multi-region servers.

[Niered]

None of the above. Their all nice things to have but what are you going to be doing in the end? Grinding for weapons. And the best thing to have when grinding for weapons is good company. In other words, community. And multi-region servers.

I had no problem playing PSO, grinding through areas that were actually interesting and engaging, with stellar music, in a setting that depicted a certain amount of urgency.

I could not stomach grinding in PSU, through bland, uninspired terrain, BGM I turned off after hearing the tracks for the 3rd time, and in a plot that made me feel unnecessary on the whole.

They could make PSO2 a tactical-turnbased RPG, and as long as it got those things right I would still play it. Hell, they did, PSOep3, and that had more personality than PSU and its expansion combined.

[Mike]

I had no problem playing PSO, grinding through areas that were actually interesting and engaging, with stellar music, in a setting that depicted a certain amount of urgency.

You'll have to inform me what sense of urgency there is runing areas over and over again to find a rare drop. A great sense of urgency was never what I felt in PSO. Nor would I say the music was stellar. It was good but the field music got old after listening to it X^X amount of times save for the openings/endings and a few boss tunes. I do the same thing now that I did when I played PSO: I turn off the music and listen to something else. The fellow in charge of music for PSO is the same who was in charge of music for PSU, PSP2, and PSP2i actually. I wasn't able to meet him but he seems like an interesting guy from the PSP2 and PSP2i promotions.

If the game is good enough, and word gets out of it, its own community will form (but I'm sure you knew that already).

Whaat? Community websites based on certain series of games? I had no idea those existed!

[Kent]

None of the above. Their all nice things to have but what are you going to be doing in the end? Grinding for weapons. And the best thing to have when grinding for weapons is good company. In other words, community. And multi-region servers.

Community serves to improve anything though. Realistically, all of these attributes are secondary-at-best to making PSO2 the best game it can be.

Gameplay is above all else when it comes to designing games. If the game itself is not fun to play, with fully-realized mechanics, well-balanced character interaction and creative and interesting content in which to play, it begs the question of whether what you're wanting is actually a game at all and not simply The Palace.

Not to mention, you can't really design community into a game - you can only provide them tools to help form a community around said game. If the game is good enough, and word gets out of it, its own community will form (but I'm sure you knew that already).

[Drawers]

None of the above. They're all nice things to have but what are you going to be doing in the end? Grinding for weapons. And the best thing to have when grinding for weapons is good company. In other words, community. And multi-region servers.

This is your argument? Then just play PSU, plain and simple. :| We don't want PSU, nobody does except you.

[Minidoomer]

I just want to be able to play with my friends in a mission that isn't White Beast...that dragon has been killed at least 5 or 6 thousand times by me...

Something I noticed when I use to play PSU, was how late at night with my group of buddies we would all get really bored, and start falling asleep. Something is really wrong when you run S2 difficulty and the game basically just runs by itself.

My friend busted out his gamecube and we tackled BB. WOW. That shit kept me engaged. Comparing PSU to PSO is like comparing a wet hamburger dropped on the ground to a freshly made Burger King Whopper with all the toppings and a side of fries to go. also with chicken fries. And coke.

I don't know how they're gonna do it, but all I know, is that for PSO2 I want that same level of engagement. I don't want to be falling asleep at the controller, I want to actually have to pay attention and strategize with my team in order to survive. I think PSP2 was a good stepping stone and a valuable learning experience for Sega. Hopefully they will take all that they've learned and implemented and use that on PSO2.

As far as the aesthetics go...I like wearing a bath robe while I kill things...It's a sick fantasy of mine.

[Dongra]

This is your argument? Then just play PSU, plain and simple. :| We don't want PSU, nobody does except you.

You don't like PSU, we get it. You can't really speak for all of us though. PSU actually did do some things right such as character customization and a better combat system. A lot of weapon types were absolutely worthless in PSO because of a poor animation, and the combo system back then was far more clunky than PSU's was. Naturally, PSU was going to have more in depth customization over PSO considering how old PSO was at the time, though I admit I am not a fan of the art style of PSU. Photon Arts can easily replace PSO's Extra Attack as long as they are handled the way they are in PSP2 since PSU's PA's were overpowered and spammed far too much. Meseta actually had a purpose in PSU, and it had a more stable economy, though it was still a bit of a mess thanks to cheaters, than PSO did. Overall, I prefer PSO to PSU, I actually still play PSO, but if they can combine the good elements of both games for PSO2 then we should see a great game in the future.

[Kent]

You don't like PSU, we get it. You can't really speak for all of us though. PSU actually did do some things right such as character customization and a better combat system.

It's worth noting that while PSU did attempt to advance these aspects over PSO, any successes they may have had in those areas are met with just as many, and oftentimes more, things they've done critically-wrong in those same areas.

[Drawers]

You don't like PSU, we get it. You can't really speak for all of us though. PSU actually did do some things right such as character customization and a better combat system. A lot of weapon types were absolutely worthless in PSO because of a poor animation, and the combo system back then was far more clunky than PSU's was. Naturally, PSU was going to have more in depth customization over PSO considering how old PSO was at the time, though I admit I am not a fan of the art style of PSU. Photon Arts can easily replace PSO's Extra Attack as long as they are handled the way they are in PSP2 since PSU's PA's were overpowered and spammed far too much. Meseta actually had a purpose in PSU, and it had a more stable economy, though it was still a bit of a mess thanks to cheaters, than PSO did. Overall, I prefer PSO to PSU, I actually still play PSO, but if they can combine the good elements of both games for PSO2 then we should see a great game in the future.

I'm not trying to prove anything by saying how much I dislike PSU, I'm just expressing how I feel about it. You have a good argument, and I do have some good memories of PSU but it never felt like I was getting anything done. I never got the stuff I wanted, the kicking feature gave too many dicks too much power (a majority vote kicking system is so much better for this type of game), and SoA was never consistent with their updates.

Yes the meseta flow was amazing and player shops were also well done but 50% of that is because of the community and the My Room feature could've had so much more simple common sense details, and PMs sucked. Mags were the ish, and they get replaced with some stupid RCSM bs...?

PSO is just so much more amazing and detailed in it's own simple but detailed way, without being super dull and complicated like PSU. PSU's battle system is bland and unexciting, while PSO was clunky, it was still fun and epic. I can't exactly explain how much more amazing PSO's battle system is in comparison to PSU's from my angle but that's how I feel. My bias is not based on me trying to start an argument, but because of PSO's genuine and raw creativity and the hardwork put into it.