PSO or PSU-styled Class System

[Darki]

One reason for what I said about less classes than PSU but still some more than PSO, was that having hybrids is not that difficult to balance, having a Hunter, a Fighgunner and a Wartecher, for example, you only need to balance the power of three fighters. Having Force, Wartecher and Guntecher, you just need to adjust the power of three techers, and same with Ranger, Guntecher and Fighgunner.

One problem that PSU had, was that there were a crapload of each roles, like for example fighters. You had Hunter (though it didn't count as being a "basic" class) then had Fortefighter, Fighgunner, Wartecher, Acrofighter, Protranser and Fighmaster, and same happened with techers, specially dividing them between support and offensive. At the end, the differences were too blurred and everything was fucked up.

With six, classes, for example, it shouldn't be that bad. If we come from the basis that each class should be as appealing and "powerful" in their respective roles, then we could put Hunter as the strongest fighter, as it's a "pure" fighter, then Fighgunner slighty weaker but balanced with HU thanks to it's guns, and then Wartecher being the weaker of the three, but powerful in TECH performance making it as offensively capable as the other three. In the same manner, Force would be the strongest techer, as powerful as TECHs as Hunter at melee, then Wartecher would be the second best techer, slighty weaker than FO but balanced by it's melee, and finally Guntecher, who would be mainly a gunner with TECH support.

Also, having less classes would allow HUGE differences between them without being umbalanced. HU could be much stronger than fG and inmensely stronger than WT, but guns in the first would make it as powerful in the general way, and WT's weakness in melee would be balanced by being the second best techers. In PSU, having 7 fighters is something, well, bassically twice as hard to balance.

I'm up with making each race/class combination having an unique trend, like for example making each race have a special abbility in each class. Newman forces could have a TP regeneration feature, while being fighters would give them an attack speed boost and being rangers would make them to naturally increase the elemental proficiency of the bullets. Combinations would lead to two improvements together, like a newman WT getting TP regeneration and speed boost. That would make it up to pure classes being really strong, while hybrids have more "specials" and thus making them appealing too. Also, that would give reasons to play any race as any class, as for example in the bonuses I described, a newman hunter would be a very fast fighter despite it's physical weakness.

On the other hand, the idea of a "Secondary class" looks nice on paper, but nobody seem to notice that that leads to many more possible "subclasses". First you have the three basic classes. If you pick as secondary class the same to "empower the basic class", that's pretty much what Forte-classes are. If you pick another class to make a "hybrid" each hybrid would have two variations: for example a "Wartecher" could be a Hunter based with Force OR a Force based with Hunter. That would add 6 more classes, having in total 9 final classes plus the three basic ones, twelve.

I don't really see this bad, in fact it adds more variations to the game, but in the end that's the same as having "independant class" hybrids. I mean, hybrids as classes can be balanced separatedly from their root classes, and that should be done too in case of using the "secondary class" system to avoid imbalances... So what would be the differences in that, except the name? Another thing would be the weapon proficiencies: you can make the pallette of a hybrid class from zero, and in the "secondary class" system if you want to avoid having all four hunter-based classes using the same Hunter weapons then you'd have to add some restrictions and modifications to each class independently to make them unique.For me that's the same as a "normal" hybrid.

[unicorn]

Um, CASTs used techs way before PSO, so I don't know why all the "CASTS SHOULDNT USE TECHS" thing is about.

I believe they should be the weakest with them, but should have them available.

And I'd like 4 or 5 races. MAYBE 6. Gib Dumans (give them a cooler name though) and Dezolisians pl0x.

[Kimil Adrayne]

In respect to what Darki is saying about ~6 classes be good, I agree. PSU eventually got convoluted as far as what role did what. Acrotechers and fighters stepped on the feet of Wartechers, the acros really didn't need to exist for example.

In PSO, there weren't 3 classes but 12. Each set up wasn't just a Class/Race/gender combo, but an actual role. Some, less useful than others (HUmars). I liked how identity in PSU was more focued on the Races verses a combination that just so happened to require you being a female newman (PSO, if you wanted to play melee/magic support, HUnewearl was your only option).

If the class set up was taken from the PSU point of view of race/gender first and then chose a role, I'd hope that combination would give you more than a certain set of stats modifiers. Ie: race/class specific bonuses.

In PSO2, I hope they don't bother with hybrids: stick to the 3 classes. Class customization and the race/class specific bonuses would allow play as a hybrid though. Example:

Start as Humarl with what ever gender/race/class bonuses would come from that. As you level, put proficiency towards healing magic and buffs. You now effectively have a Watercher (hyrbid). Instead of taking this path, could have gained skill with melee skills to be closer to a Fortefighter (pure).

Edit to avoid double posting:

Yes, I agree on adding races, or at least keeping the ones from PSU. With this said, I still want them to leave the number of classes at 3.

[Darki]

There's another problem at the suggestion about having only the three basic classes and making them "hybrids" using class customizations, and is something very simple. It's impossible to achieve proper balance this way because hybrids would never be equal in performance and usefulness as the main classes.

if you take for example a Hunter, a PSO style HU, and we have to decide to enhance it's stats with materias to make a "Fortefighter" style HU or a "Wartecher" style HU, you have to understand that a Hunter has very low TECH stats from the begining, which means that you'll have to invest many points to increase all Force stats (or at least TECH damage stat) to make it able to use magic that is not useless. This would make you keep your HU stats really low, while your tech stats would still be very very low compared to a Force, so our teching abilities would be really "laughtable". On the other hand, if what you wanna do is a Hunter "Fighgunner" type, you'll find your task much easier, as ranger and hunter stats are very similar: EVP, DFP, ATA. Probably (if ATA is the modifier for ranged damage) a Hunter will have enough ATA to be useful at combat, so if you wanna make a Hunter that excels at ranged weapons too, you can invest many points in ATA, which will also help on your melee abilities, and ATP because you won't need that much ATA to make your guns useful.

See the difference?

Apart from that, you fall again on the same problem as PSO: maybe not so strict as to have to play a HUnewearl to be a good "battlemage" only, but you'll still be stiicked into the same issue that you'll need a specific combination to make what you want IF it's an hybrid, but not if it's a pure. Example: if you make a Hunter, you can make ANY race into it, even with strenght differences they will all be Hunters with the same modifiers to make them "hunters". Same with the other pure classes. On the other hand, if you wanna make a battlemage, you'll have to fall again on the same problem: you MUST make a newman HU or a human FO (or given the case, a beast FO). If you make a beast HU, for example, the stats will be so really different and contrary to use TECHs that it won't even make sense.

BUT, now going to the "hybrid" theme, all those problems get solved easily. First one, you will have already the classes with their own unique set of stats that will make them balanced between them. You won't need to invest those enhancing features to "acquire" the hybridation, and you will be able to improve your class further while being already an hybrid from the beggining, and it won't cause imbalance between roles that are closer in stats to each other, like rangers and hunters.

On the second issue, as those hybrid classes will be pointed from the beggining to each role, any race will be able to do so, with some differences. In this case, you will be able to make a beast Wartecher, and it will be still able to use TECHs, even being weaker than a newman WT, but BOTH wiill be able to use them, AND melee. Everybody as WT will be a battlemage regardless of race or gender.

They could try to make those six classes, completely "pure" or "fifty-fifty": Hunter, Ranger, Force, Wartecher, Guntecher, Fighgunner. Then if someone wants to be a class focused in techs but with some melee, you can have a Beast Force, or a Newman Wartecher, if you want a class focused in melee but with some techs, you can be a newman Hunter, or a Beast Wartecher, or human in any of those roles.

Note that I use always the WT theme because it's the class I know best, don't take offense plz. <_<

[zandra117]

I just dont want to see them turn newmans into space elves again. Newmans are supposed to be really good with light melee weapons.

[Kent]

I just dont want to see them turn newmans into space elves again. Newmans are supposed to be really good with light melee weapons.

Kinda like elves, right?

[Darki]

I don't see newmans as a weak fighters either, but I wouldn't like to see them as ATP powerhouses. For some reason I always picture them as the typical rogue-assassin class with an insane attack speed relying on it to kill things rather than on raw power.

Newmans could get a huge attack speed bonus being Hunters when using twin weapons and one handed weapons (much like an AF, but without beint ATs lol), that could make them as good Hunter classes as CASTs (or beasts if they're included) without imbalancing them.

But no AF, please. AF is the pointless class EVAR, a FiG had the same weapons as AF, they could have given AF's S ranks and speed boost to FiG and then AF wouldn't need to exist.

[NoiseHERO]

Is PSZ the best example of pso's upgraded system?

It still feels freedom limiting no matter how I look at it, pso didn't come out yesterday. >3>;

[Tetsaru]

Here's how I'd do it:

• For races, I would have Humans, Newmans, CASTs, Beasts, Dumans, and possibly some from the older Phantasy Star games that I'm not familiar with. Each race (save for Humans, who would be good all-around) would the best in a certain stat: Newmans have the highest TP, CASTs have the best ATA, Beasts have the highest HP, Dumans have the highest ATP, etc. Gender would have no effect on stats, but could still affect things like race/gender-specific equipment.
  
  
• This may sound a bit radical, but players would not initially choose a class at all. Instead, your class would automatically be defined by your current levels, stat growth, and proficiencies with certain weapons as you progress. For example, after making your character, you would start out as a "Beginner." If you choose to fight primarily with melee weapons like sabers, you will unlock a title as a Hunter, and you could choose to switch to that job. Then, your stat growth would reflect your class, as well as your race, in order to better suit the weapons you like using most. Likewise, if you primarily use guns, you would unlock Ranger, or if you used techer weapons, you would unlock Force. Now, if you decide to mix up weapons a bit, then you could start unlocking classes like Fighgunner, Wartecher, and Guntecher. OR, if you decided to stick with just one weapon, like fists, you could unlock something like "Pugilist" to suit your fighting style. I feel that this kind of system would better reflect what roles players would want their characters to be, instead of merely leveling up a certain job while playing it in a nonconformist way. At the same time, it would still maintain a sense of progression and character growth, and give players something to work towards.
  
  
• To define which classes become unlocked, each character would have a proficiency level with each weapon, including certain types of techs and traps (similar to FF11). For example, the more often you use handguns, the higher your handgun proficiency level would go up. In doing so, you would gain ATP and ATA bonuses whenever you used handguns. At the same time, you would unlock basic classes like Ranger, which would suit all gun weapons, or later on you could unlock something like "Gunslinger," which would be suited specifically for handguns. I feel that proficiency levels would also serve as a better stat requirement than ATP, ATA, TP, or character levels for equipping certain weapons. It makes more sense to me that a character would need to train him or herself in using greatswords before he or she could equip something like a Chainsawd, for example.
  
  
• Proficiency levels, as well as other conditions, could also unlock different Photon Arts. For example, if you were playing Ranger and were using a rifle, if you killed 25 ice-element enemies, you would learn Burning Shot. OR, if you were lucky (as it would HAVE to be a pretty rare drop, otherwise it could break the system), you could also find a Burning Shot PA disc drop from an enemy, and you could learn it immediately, or possibly trade/sell it to someone else who needs it. NPC stores could also sell certain basic PA's, but at a high price. Some PA's might also require completing certain quests or training/tutorial missions to unlock. Like in PSU, each PA would level up and become stronger the more you use it, just like proficiency levels.
  
  
• Armor would most likely be dependent on what class you are, as well as your character and class level. For example, classes that naturally have high EVP, such as Acrofighter, would use lighter armor, where classes like Fortefighter (or possibly some sort of tank-like class) would use much heavier armor. Armor would randomly have between 0 and 4 slots, like in PSO, and new slots could be added in some way, possibly through a blacksmith NPC or other upgrading system of some sort. There would be no Head, Body, Arm, or Extra slot; any unit could be placed in any slot.
  
  
• Each race would have its own unique special attack. CASTs would have SUV's (they would not take up an armor slot), Beasts would have Nanoblasts, etc. An equipped MAG's Photon Blast could also be used, possibly in conjunction with a race-specific move and/or with other players for even crazier effects!
  
  
• Upon leveling up a class (possibly through using MP similar to PSU, but more balanced), your stats (ATP, ATA, TP, etc.) would grow to reflect that class, and would change when you switched classes. However, upon leveling your character, not only would your stats grow in accordance with your race, but you would also be given a certain number of points that you could distribute to your stats as you see fit, allowing for even more customization. These stats could also be readjusted in some way, should you decide to change them, but only so often. Players could also find Materials to further boost their stats when consumed, up to a certain cap.

[BIG OLAF]

Each race would have its own unique special attack. CASTs would have SUV's (they would not take up an armor slot), Beasts would have Nanoblasts, etc. An equipped MAG's Photon Blast could also be used, possibly in conjunction with a race-specific move and/or with other players for even crazier effects!

^This. This, right here. A happy medium between Photon Blasts from PSO and the racial specials from PSU.