Predicament of clothing for women in PSP2i

[kongajinken]

Just to start out I will be going into some philosophy about feminism, but not much because I want this threads main focus to be about suggestions for good female clothing in the next PSO2 or later phantasy stars. I would assume Sega reads this forum and others like it so what better way to get our voices heard then to make suggestions towards future Phantasy star games.

To start out I will go over the extreme spectrums of womens clothing by giving examples of iconic women in gaming(which I straight ripped from this source: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/foru...hy-of-feminism)

First end of the spectrum:
Take Alyx Vance, the postergirl for female protagonists "done right". She's independent, competent, and borderline asexual. Her role and her ideas are not defined by her gender. You could also change her sex to male with very little impact on her character. Is that a good thing? Is she a beacon of strong female characterization or a rejection of femininity - an insulting declaration that women cannot exhibit both sexuality and power? She appeals to the subset of male gamers who basically want a nerdy "best girl friend", but how many women can actually relate to her?

Second end of the spectrum:
What about Bayonetta? She hails from the "unstoppable sex beast" school of female protagonists. She's unabashedly feminine in her dress and mannerisms while still maintaining complete dominance in her role as a powerful warrior. Her behavior originates from male expectations of her gender, but she owns that behavior and those expectations. She has embraced the sexualization of women to the point of empowerment. Do we applaud her while she skanks it up in skin tight hair outfits? Or do we scold her for accepting gender stereotypes to the point of dependence?

-Extremely emphasised note here, the point of this thread isn't a debate so which ever you feel strongest about please don't get into an arguement with anyone about it, thank you.

From the first phantasy star portable most of the clothing hailed from the first end of the spectrum, which some people enjoyed it others disliked it. With infinity I'm sure most people would argee on that Sega is heading more towards the second end of the spectrum this time around. But life isn't as simple as having to be for either ends of the spectrum, one can enjoy something in the middle no? What would I would like from everyone is suggestions on clothing that could be seen as feminine while not being overly sexualized. What is not wanted is either

exhibit A)

or

exhibit B)

One example(arguably bad) of something that could be feminine, but not overly sexualized would be the bath towel. Sure it's an iconic sex symbol, but its worn by men as well as women. There's probably way better things out there, so any ideas are welcome. Also clothing need not be gender neutral, its just a coincidence that my example was.

[TheAstarion]

The GUARDIANS Formal (Ceremonial Wear in PSP2) is what I see as the ideal compromise between the two. It looks like a cross between an Admiral's uniform and a ball gown, it's elegant and fussy, but not at all impractical. It was originally worn by Laia Martinez in the storyline when she began to take a back seat to the action, and embrace her role as president of the Guardians, and she can still be seen wearing it in the PSP2 side story missions.

With that in mind, Laia herself is a pretty good example of that same compromise. She may as well be male, in terms of the story, but she bares her midriff, has a crush on a big muscular married man, ties up a bunch of criminals and forces them to shout, "Beast women are the best!"... but other than that she seems to be completely unaware of being female.

Except when Lucaim Nav grabs her ass. Funnily enough, he never does this to Ms. Fanservice Maya Shidow, at least on-screen.

As for the role gender plays in Phantasy Star, there is a difference in stats between males and females. Men are stronger, healthier and with faster reflexes, women are smarter, tougher, have more stamina and are more accurate. These differences aren't huge, but one could argue that they don't need to be there at all. Any difference in gameplay between the two genders can be regarded as sexist, but so can failing to address the very real differences between men and women in the real world. With this in mind... can a game developer really "win"? I think Sega's approach to PSU through PSP2 and beyond has been a rather good one, as it puts into the player's hands the choice of how to dress, how to fight, and in general how to behave. And just like in the real world, these are people playing the game, people making their characters, not just media images manufactured to suit ideals.

It got a bit wall-o-texty there, I'll let others chip in now.

[Ceresa]

And here I was mislead by the thread title to expect a righteous crusade on the unfair pricing of DL items between newmans and casts.

[FOkyasuta]

I say exibit A. To much B is no pun intended, Bad. But its what you'd expect from Japan.

With that in mind, Laia herself is a pretty good example of that same compromise. She may as well be male, in terms of the story, but she bares her midriff, has a crush on a big muscular married man, ties up a bunch of criminals and forces them to shout, "Beast women are the best!"... but other than that she seems to be completely unaware of being female.

Except when Lucaim Nav grabs her ass. Funnily enough, he never does this to Ms. Fanservice Maya Shidow, at least on-screen.

Eh, what'd you expect? A non pervy old man? Hah.

As for the role gender plays in Phantasy Star, there is a difference in stats between males and females. Men are stronger, healthier and with faster reflexes, women are smarter, tougher, have more stamina and are more accurate. These differences aren't huge, but one could argue that they don't need to be there at all. Any difference in gameplay between the two genders can be regarded as sexist, but so can failing to address the very real differences between men and women in the real world. With this in mind... can a game developer really "win"? I think Sega's approach to PSU through PSP2 and beyond has been a rather good one, as it puts into the player's hands the choice of how to dress, how to fight, and in general how to behave. And just like in the real world, these are people playing the game, people making their characters, not just media images manufactured to suit ideals.

True, Oh so very true. He or she might think he or she has won, But in reality did they really? Maybe not.

And here I was mislead by the thread title to expect a righteous crusade on the unfair pricing of DL items between newmans and casts.

Aint nothing wrong with classics, but how much is the said difference?

[Merm]

I personally think PSP2 had a nice balance of the plainer clothing and the more sexualized stuff, so I agree TheAstarion that Sega made a good choice that we're allowed to choose clothes for our character without it affecting anything in the game. The default outfit choices aren't the only choices. <:
Now, I personally think the male outfits need more work, since I feel there are too few pretty clothes for them, but I digress.

[vagabondkitten]

I personally think PSP2 had a nice balance of the plainer clothing and the more sexualized stuff, so I agree TheAstarion that Sega made a good choice that we're allowed to choose clothes for our character without it affecting anything in the game. The default outfit choices aren't the only choices. <:
Now, I personally think the male outfits need more work, since I feel there are too few pretty clothes for them, but I digress.

This! As a guy who is somewhat androgynous in person, both in personality and appearance, I find the men's lackluster hair and clothing options to be disheartening. Other than a couple of the outfits, and with even at the skinniest build possible, the male characters look extremely buff, and all of his clothes are very warrior-esque, or just plain boring to me. They finally added a couple outfits I really liked in Infinity, but there is still not nearly as many options as the female's have. I understand that women are the sex that are actually considered attractive, or even an art form, but that doesn't mean men are completely incapable of looking pretty as well. I play both female and male characters, but my main character is a male, and I just wish I could play around with his clothes options as much as I can with my female characters. :/

[BIG OLAF]

Oh, another one of these discussions.

Japan likes their video game women dressed in provocative stylishness, as they always have, and I happen to like most of the outfits (though I will say that the ratio of "provocative" to "normal" female clothes should be 1:1, not 20:1). Either way, it's not going to change.

[Waki Miko Syamemaru!]

Japan always did enjoy they're "Queen's Blade" style of clothing. So such things like this:



Will be laughed at and tossed to the side, despite how cool and tastefull it is.

[BIG OLAF]

^Oh, yeah. I remember that outfit. "Slide to Nights", I believe it was called. We all were pulling for it to win in the competition (because it looks pretty badass, and a girl in a vest and dress slacks is still quite sexy), but lost out to the same-old-same-old lolita dresses and the like.

[Akaimizu]

Yep. This is pretty much the same thing. If you're a woman, don't go tomboy unless you want like 3 outfits to wear. But if you're a man, they definitely need to up the styles there. If only someone at SNK or Capcom or something, got involved. Those two together know how to make a heavy collection of Male clothes. From Military styles, to flashy and flamboyant, all the way to GQ magazine status.

At least the males can go all cowboy up, if they wanted to. Something I did with Stints, in PSU.