Acrotecher

[Kitty Ownz]

Can someone give me a good class setup. What weapons armor and PA moves. i like whips so maybe someone can point me in the right direction.What race and how could i be a great acrotecher. thank you
GT: KENJI 68

[bloodflowers]

http://psu.system11.org/blog/?page_id=649

I wrote that guide a while ago, you might find it useful.

[BIG OLAF]

I've been consulting that guide as well, seeing as I've decided to slowly turn my female CAST into an Acrotecher. However, I won't be able to seriously play the class until I can kind enough motivation to level all my buffs and the like...

[Proto07]

http://psu.system11.org/blog/?page_id=649

I wrote that guide a while ago, you might find it useful.

Pretty good guide.

I had a Cast M AT on the 360 servers who was fun to use. I recently started a Human AT on the JP servers because of the extra GAS points they get.... but that guide is making me regret choosing a Human.

[Selphea]

that guide is making me regret choosing a Human.

IMO, it's a good guide, and I referred to it for a few pointers starting out. However, in my experience playing PSU JP, which is the version we are referring to, I can offer a point for point rebuttal of his race/gender comparison.

Point 1: "The character must be able to survive in nearly all situations"

This is true in principle - ATs rely on their buffs more than other classes since dying for an AT usually entails longer downtime than dying for other classes due to the need to rebuff. However, the comparison given is ambiguous - why is the cutoff arbitrarily placed between Casts and Humans? The 150-odd HP difference is the smallest between any two races as AT.

Due to the availability of Trimates and Resta, the main purpose of HP is to survive burst damage, i.e. fast consecutive hits with high damage. Thus, it is necessary to quantify the instances of burst damage that was used to arrive at this benchmark. Being able to survive 2 consecutive Foies from Gaozoran while wearing Dark armor? Humans can do this. Being able to survive 3 consecutive tramples from Alteraz while wearing 40% armor of the correct type? Humans can do this too. Being able to survive 2 consecutive Bead Groode missiles while wearing Ice armor (Tylor + Groode spawn in S3 Ohtori)? IIRC, they hit 2.2k each so everyone dies from this, but Humans and Newmans have a better chance of blocking at least 1 missile and suviving.

Furthermore, despite this apparent HP deficiency for Humans and Newmans, the guide does not recommend any HP buffs in its GAS suggestions for any race. This is even though Humans and Newmans have the most surplus GAS points.

HP and STA are not the only measures of character survivability. EVP also plays a large role, especially with the addition of Vivi Dezza, which, on an Exact Counter, grants 3 seconds of invulnerability while putting out the highest AoE DPS an AT can possibly do. Since the AT will be jumping from one 3 second invulnerability window to another, an enemy cannot cannot possibly burst it down if it cannot beat the AT's EVP. The main counter to the EVP argument is tech damage, but unlike melee damage, techs are considerably easier to manually dodge.

Therefore, a combination of HP and EVP is important for AT survivability.

Point 2: "The main bulk of available damage as an AT is achieved with striking weapons."

This is debateable depending on party makeup. In many cases, striking weapons tend to cause blowaway, which makes it difficult for other party members to effectively us AoE weapons with narrow geometry, like slicers and lasers. Up close, an AT that blows away an enemy, causing the 3rd part of a party member's Assault Crush to miss is just rude. Divide and Conquer mitigates this to some extent, e.g. when duoing Ohtori S3, the AT takes care of No Vol while the other fighter attacks Hiru and Do Vol. In messier situations though, like the spawns of 5 + Curtz, this is a little more difficult to manage, while in situations where there is only 1 very strong enemy, like Tylor, this is impossible. For cases like these, tech damage can come in useful, and a race with competent TP would help greatly.

However, in solo play and many missions where enemies are too weak to last beyond a single PA chain, it is true that Striking damage will form the bulk of AT DPS, and a good chunk of that striking damage will come from Exact Counters since the main PAs of JP ATs have the highest damage in the first part. An AT will actually want to have their PAs interrupted so that they can skip the weaker 2nd and 3rd parts to go right back to the first part. Therefore, while the guide lists EVP as an unfavorable stat on 360, the inverse is arguably true on JP.

Another point to note, Cards have increased accuracy on JP, while a few PAs, like Vivi Dezza and Renga Chujin-Shou, ignore the ATA vs. EVP check altogether. Because of this, ATA has somewhat decreased importance, although it still has an impact when using striking weapons against 1-2 targets.

Point 3: "An AT needs to be able to react quickly."

This is a questionable point. Casts and Beasts can - and should choose not to SUV or Nanoblast at inopportune times. Furthermore, SUVs give outright invulnerability and tend to stunlock or outright kill all enemies in the area of effect, so there should be no need for an AT to support the party during a well-timed SUV, unless a party member is asking for it, like running into a fire or laser fence and standing in it for the duration of the AT's SUV

Point 4: "The AT needs to be able to use support techs effectively."

This is true, and all races are largely equal for this purpose - Ogijinjin should cover the TP and PP needs for Resta spam.

Point 5: "Attack techs are often undesirable due to issues with the 360 platform and slowdown."

This is a moot point. Most PC players will not be affected by the tech slowdown that plagues 360.

Point 6: "AT has low skill caps, compromising accuracy."

This has been addressed in point 2.

Based on my rebuttal, I would rank the races as follows for AT:

• Humans are the best race for an all-rounder AT. Their TP and Freeze SUV enables them to do ranged DPS and crowd control for the party as the situation calls for it, while not compromising much on the melee stats - they are only 60ATP and 150HP behind casts, but gain almost 900TP and 400EVP in return, on top extra GAS points.
  
• Beasts can compete with humans for solo play, with respectable EVP and high ATP. Their Nanoblast is slightly better for solo since the human SUV is CC-based and thus relies on party members hitting stuff for the duration of it to gain the most utility. For event missions though, Humans are probably on par with Beasts since their SUV can kill the reduced HP event spawns.
  
• Newmans are third - compared to humans they gain roughly 200TP and 40EVP, but lose around 200ATP and 400HP in return, which is a net negative since ATP weighs slightly higher than TP due to frequency of melee vs. tech, and 40EVP does not offset 400HP at all. This makes Newman ATs more tech-centric - they have the EVP, but they don't have the HP to take the same risks in melee a Human can, and even if they do, their lower ATP gets them lower returns. Odessa does have a few AT videos up though, and they do show that Newman ATs fare pretty well in parties while opening up MF as a solo option.
  
• Casts are probably fourth - their situation is like the opposite of Newmans - they have the HP, but they don't have the EVP to run right into the face of a Zodeel'd firebreathing Vanda knowing they will get a block within the first 2 ticks. Unlike Newmans, however, they don't really surpass Humans in any area - for melee the two races are about equal once GAS is taken into account, and for techs, they have nothing to close the 900 TP gap, so their only real advantage is Ares Espada.

[Midori Oku]

This is true, and all races are largely equal for this purpose - Ogijinjin should cover the TP and PP needs for Resta spam.

Point 5: "Attack techs are often undesirable due to issues with the 360 platform and slowdown."

1:Any good Acrotecher would know that Revenge Blaster has made Resta / Giresta obsolete. Rentis, Dizas and Buffs are still fine.

2: Tech slowdown is slim to none for the most part, if you know what you are doing. It's what separates the good techers from the bad on 360.

[Selphea]

1:Any good Acrotecher would know that Revenge Blaster has made Resta / Giresta obsolete. Rentis, Dizas and Buffs are still fine.

For TAs, that's true, and I usually ask if anyone is running Revenge Blaster if I'm playing with friends of friends whom I've met for the first time.

For playing with friends who are casual players, as well as sub-180s I use Resta

For randoms, I prefer to err on the safe side and keep their HPs at full.

For hard missions like Ohtori S3 though, Giresta and Resta are a must (See Odessa's Ohtori S3 video)

[bloodflowers]

However, in my experience playing PSU JP, which is the version we are referring to

We are? The guide was written for the 360 servers, which is what the OP appears to be playing on (at least, it was signed with his GT which is a good clue). It's out of date now as changes need to be made with regards to healing tech use due to Revenge Blaster, but pretty much everything else is still ok, for the 360.

For PC on the other hand, the guide is wrong in more places than it is right - I'm not even sure a supplementary chapter would cover it, it's an entirely different game and I'm thinking I might add a note mentioning the guide only really covers 360 servers.

You made some good points - notably the existance of Vivi Dezza - which nullifies some the EVP problem ATs suffer on 360 due it it only having one part. Having said that I still can't reliably Just Counter on PC, the latency is unpredictable to say the least. My 360 AT is set up with Sluggish 2 because without it the whip is absolutely useless even on CAST - you never get to part 2 which is where the damage is, and it's considerably worse the more EVP you have. That problem actually appeared when the Shijin came out, before that the evasion frequency was about right with Armas, but the combo boost was too good to ignore. Also because TECHs are not off limits on the PC (sorry Midori but I disagree that on 360 TECH slowdown isn't much of a problem - there's precious few useful ones for AT which are safe for surrounding players), it changes the whole pecking order of races - since Humans have the SUV ability now I'd put them in first place.

There are other issues too, like the recommended equipment. It's more or less up to date for the 360 although I need to mention the trade-in twin daggers. On the PC though every single bit of recommended equipment is different except for the Shijin and the L&K14. The Stun whips which will remain king on 360 for a very long time (most likely until the servers close), were virtually retired by the Silver Cranial A rank with a PA boost (that whip & Dezza were a secret Wartecher boost... Look at the PA level progression). The DPS timings for all the PAs are all wrong for the PC too, potentially even to the point where the DPS order is different instead of just being collectively higher. One thing I noticed playing JP and 360 is that the PC client is simply faster all the time, even when both are running without any slowdown or frameskip at all, movements happen faster on the PC.

I wouldn't bother with Resta in Ohtori though, it's pointless - seems safer to just use Giresta all the time. Yes it's slightly slower, and yes it will reset the buffers of anyone who hasn't been knocked around much, but having seen friends ejected in b2 because I was waiting a long time for the Giresta wand to load, it seems best to keep it available all the time - especially near Ethan. Another fun Ohtori one for you, try spamming Dezza right from the start on the Vol brothers, you should keep them grounded for 2-3 PAs and sometimes more due to the knockdown - and it's certainly more damage than trying to machine gun, saber or dagger a single one of them.

[Selphea]

We are?

By "we" I was referring to Proto07 and myself, since he/she mentioned human ATs being weak on JP, but I should have made that clearer.

For armors, I'm actually running with a set of Drill Lines right now. They're much safer exchanges than Shijin - cheap and guaranteed 40%+. After the event though, I'll start running for scales for Shijin. Looks like it will be a tough choice though - Drill Lines let me get away with skipping quite a few resist units. With Feril/Wall weak megids get reduced to 0 damage and just about every stun attack except Svaltus' ranged stun gets blocked. It will be hard giving up the ability to run into random attacks just to fish for counters for that +20%.

I am surprised that the DPS timings are different - that would explain why my numbers for Vivi Dezza were disproportionately higher than any other PA in your spreadsheet.

WT Dezza is definitely OP. Ironically, I use that PA so much but I'm still torn on whether I should take Whip PAs to Lv5. As a WT I definitely would, but as an AT it seems like a ripoff paying 20AP for a 3% net damage increase (10% out of 300%).

Twin Daggers are definitely going to Lv5 though - they're the only AT weapon that gains more than 1% per level. Based on your 360 DPS spreadsheet, adjusted for JP PA %s, Moubu Seiren-zan at Lv30 beats out every other AT option at Lv30 for 1-2 targets. Since you say the timings on PC are different though, I'll have to do some testing. Even if it isn't the best though, it still has value due to a strong first part.

I didn't know it was possible to land Vivi Dezza on all three Vols in Ohtori though. Last time I was there, I was helping a friend hunt Feri/Force and I went with Renga Chujin-Shou to keep the ranger stunlocked, but that was definitely slower. Before that, I actually hunted my own Feri/Force as WT with Assault Crush instead =p For full runs in a party I just tag and spam resta - I link both resta and giresta to my support wands there since reverser is kind of useless. The only hard disablers in Ohtori are the Vols and the Groode's stun attacks, iirc. The rest is just minor stuff like burns and shocks.

[bloodflowers]

I am surprised that the DPS timings are different - that would explain why my numbers for Vivi Dezza were disproportionately higher than any other PA in your spreadsheet.

How did you do your timings? PAs are much quicker across the board when they don't hit anything (certainly this is the case on 360) - so to get accurate timings you have to do them with enemies around. With the whip especially, not only is there the added delay due to impacts, but the drawing of those impact 'flashes' causes the game to slow down for a frame or two. Also you need to do the PA twice, the timing is the gap between your X button (or equivalent) presses - I recorded them and used the frame of animation for when buttons have been pressed. Some PAs have a longer recovery time than others, so just measuring what appears to be the end of the attack doesn't really give the true time.

Twin Daggers are definitely going to Lv5 though - they're the only AT weapon that gains more than 1% per level. Based on your 360 DPS spreadsheet, adjusted for JP PA %s, Moubu Seiren-zan at Lv30 beats out every other AT option at Lv30 for 1-2 targets. Since you say the timings on PC are different though, I'll have to do some testing. Even if it isn't the best though, it still has value due to a strong first part.

You might even want to compare it to Dezza vs 2 targets... That PA coupled with the broken whip is out of step with everything else.

I didn't know it was possible to land Vivi Dezza on all three Vols in Ohtori though.

It might be due to my excessively poor ping (280ish), they've just finished spawning by the time I'm standing right in the middle of them.