Fighter Discussion

[TheFanaticViper]

Massive Hunter is still useless to me, and is especially so in Hunter because you have tons of Super Armor on your PAs anyway. And with how mobile Fighter is, and how great of tools Acro Effect and Deadly Circle are I don't see why you need to "take the hit" when you can properly utilize your tools and just not get hit.

I don't play HU main so i just speak for FI : it's true, with Deadly Circle C Double Saber doesn't need MH as before. But MH is still useful for illusion rave who have a very long animation, so sometimes you need to "take the hit", especially on boss or Ult mobs.
Also you can pair MH with LB for the damage reduction.

[FireswordRus]

I don't play HU main so i just speak for FI : it's true, with Deadly Circle C Double Saber doesn't need MH as before. But MH is still useful for illusion rave who have a very long animation, so sometimes you need to "take the hit", especially on boss or Ult mobs.
Also you can pair MH with LB for the damage reduction.

I am can confirm it. MH most have skill for LB if player want ignore incoming damage during LB or spam TAJA IR+any skill

[CoWorker]

I am can confirm it. MH most have skill for LB if player want ignore incoming damage during LB or spam TAJA IR+any skill

pretty much this, MH saved my ass countless of times during LB while popping huge amount of numbers

and its really useful on Ultimate Quest since you can jump into a huge crowd of super-armored mobs and have a spammable undisturbed Chaos Risers

[ShadowStarEdge]

I mean ultimately skills outside of the core multiplier all come down to preference and play style, so it's not like there's a clearly defined end all be all for them. Just as I can manage without MH and dump the remainder of points into damage boosts, I'm sure there are some monsters out there that can roll without MH and Iron Will, without hindrance, who can afford to put even more of their remaining points into damage boosts. We even have videos of that Hunter soloing tons of stuff at 1 HP perfectly JG/IPing everything so it's not outside the realm of possibility

[Zephyrion]

I mean ultimately skills outside of the core multiplier all come down to preference and play style, so it's not like there's a clearly defined end all be all for them. Just as I can manage without MH and dump the remainder of points into damage boosts, I'm sure there are some monsters out there that can roll without MH and Iron Will, without hindrance, who can afford to put even more of their remaining points into damage boosts. We even have videos of that Hunter soloing tons of stuff at 1 HP perfectly JG/IPing everything so it's not outside the realm of possibility

That's partially true. Thing is those buillds for raid boss nuking or TAs are made possible because boss attacks are telegraphed/ events and paths are scripted so you can reliably counter stuff coming at you.

Now for pretty much every other content in the game, things can go wrong very fast : you can get hit by something coming from offscreen, can get swarmed by mobs or whatever, making it a lot harder to reliably run these kinds of builds.

Also dumping MH points into pure stats boost is kinda preposterous, since you get +20 ATK from it which is less than 0.7% more damage approximately. If you're going to make a pure damage build, you'd better get rid of every skill that isn't damage-related to get a bonus remotely worth your trouble,

So yeah it's up to preference, but the way you want to go "outside of core multipliers" you must go fully into it. I know it's becoming repetitive but you should really give another try to MH lv5. It's not supposed to save you that often, but 25% damage reduction can be the difference between life and death,especially on LB, and getting knocked out one single time is a bigger damage loss than losing 1% damage overall, but staying in enemies' face at all times

[Bellion]

Massive Hunter is great when you want to continuously use Tornado Dance->Chaos Riser for mobbing without caring about flinches/knockbacks, especially in the ultimate quests.

Also, for the more chaotic bosses it's simpler to keep track of things solo than it is with multiple players(extra difficult with a garbage laptop). In such a case it's easier to not get hit at all, but not saying that it's an easy task in itself. I say this as I do solo LQs, EQs, and UQs from time to time.
Also, that Sword Hu/Fi most certainly uses Iron Will to get down to 1 HP in the first place. So, points would still be used in that case but probably for deadline + halfline slayers as well. Hmm maybe not Iron Will, but the Evil Rakuka Wired Lance in which case, void that previous sentence.

[FireswordRus]

. We even have videos of that Hunter soloing tons of stuff at 1 HP perfectly JG/IPing everything so it's not outside the realm of possibility

dont forget, what they do over 9000 tryes to make this video
like a guy who are buy 100 scape dolls during soloXQ

[escarlata]

Went on a hiatus for quite a while, and used to run a pure Knuckles build before. Heard that DS are now really good so I got myself a decent DS and a kamaitachi ring. As a pure Knuckle user back in the days, there are some things I'm not entirely used to, which I need some help on.
1. What is the DS primary defensive option? I understand that Acro Effect and DC-0 are good defensive PA but it feels extremely clunky to cancel into them in the middle of IR, especially compared to sway-Ducking Blow on Knuckles which feel so smooth. Is it worth picking up kamaitachi wind parry as a defensive option when kamaitachi ring is a thing?
2. Which is better to TAJA into IR? Scissors Edge, Rumbling Moon or Acro Effect? They seem to overlap a lot in terms of what they do.
3. Are Fake Capture and Deadly Archer even worth using now? FC feels particularly clumsy to use with its weird hitbox and DA just feels very underwhelming.
4. Are Volg comboes from Fuuga even worth using anymore outside of Exodas?
5. Is WR-0/QM into Orchestra still the optimal combo for TD? I read a few pages ago that Fall Nocturne comboes are stronger in the right circumstances, but still don't quite understand how high I need to be above ground for Fall Nocturne to deal it's full number of hits. A video of FN used in a practical way would be good too.

[CoWorker]

Went on a hiatus for quite a while, and used to run a pure Knuckles build before. Heard that DS are now really good so I got myself a decent DS and a kamaitachi ring. As a pure Knuckle user back in the days, there are some things I'm not entirely used to, which I need some help on.
1. What is the DS primary defensive option? I understand that Acro Effect and DC-0 are good defensive PA but it feels extremely clunky to cancel into them in the middle of IR, especially compared to sway-Ducking Blow on Knuckles which feel so smooth. Is it worth picking up kamaitachi wind parry as a defensive option when kamaitachi ring is a thing?
2. Which is better to TAJA into IR? Scissors Edge, Rumbling Moon or Acro Effect? They seem to overlap a lot in terms of what they do.
3. Are Fake Capture and Deadly Archer even worth using now? FC feels particularly clumsy to use with its weird hitbox and DA just feels very underwhelming.

1. mostly Acro Effect and DC-0 as you mentioned, and most ive read Wind Parry not recommended since apparently Parry doesn't proc when you have a DS ring, but I've seen some vids that actually work and I wanted to test it out myself but sadly I don't have enough skill points for it so I can't say for sure.... As for uninterrupted Illusion Rave, you could take Massive Hunter

2. any of the PAs (Scissors Edge, Rumbling Moon and Acro Effect) are good, clearly Rumbling Moon is a good PA to put in a middle of a combo but Acro Effect tend to raise you up which can lead to miss the weakpoints on the ground... Scrissor Edge is slightly weaker but it doesnt move around and it doesnt screw up your position of Fi Stances, and together with Rumbling Moon, you can quickly overlap DS ring's whirlwinds and easily access Illusion Rave quicker... but really its much of a personal perference

3. Fake Capture still is one of DS's hard hitting moves, but sadly its short hitbox is its downside, but you use it in a Illusion Rave combo and mainly use it on slow bosses that doesnt move much with easy to hit weakpoints (note that the DS ring's whirlwind will only proc when you successfully do the suplex part of FC)... DA still feels meh for me imo, i feel i can like pull out better numbers in Illusion Rave combos than DA...

[Evangelion X.XX]

Considering my playstyle:

1. Usually, I just use Acro Effect for either invincibility or to inflict quick damage on trash mobs; it is very rare (and you quite right that it feels rather clumsy) that I will follow up with Illusion Rave. Rather, after Acro Effect, I follow up with Tornado Dance, Chaos Riser, Deadly Circle-0 (if I need the extra invincibility), or Surprise Dunk (if I need the stun effect on mobs). Primary defensive options are Acro Effect, Deadly Circle-0, and step (if you put skill points into step advance). I actually prefer to put a couple of points into Step Advance and to forgo getting DS Wind Parry, in fact I don't even have the weapon action (shift button) on the weapon palette ever since Kaimatachi Ring was implemented (personal preference though). I should mention that Deadly Circle-0 is EXTREMELY abuse-able and can be quite cheap with a ton of invincibility frames, and it does good damage.

2. It feels natural to me to TAJA into IR from Surprise Dunk, Tornado Dance, Rumbling Moon (I like how it moves you forward toward the enemy), and Fake Capture (on big immobile target like Anga's Core); I don't use Scissor Edge and therefore don't have on my palette. I should probably mention that you'll probably be using a lot of Tornado Dance and Surprise Dunk to close in mobs from a distance.

3. Fake Capture has its usage on some bosses and and it allows you to be cheap on some beefed up mobs (for example, like the beefed up gorongos in Ult Nab or those blue machines that do their spinning laser move in Ult Lilipa). Oh yeah, Surprise Dunk can be pretty cheap too since it stuns mobs, however you have to be careful because you can be hit out of the air. As far as Deadly Archer goes, I don't really use it that much any more, only sometimes when bossing (if I don't pull out daggers for whatever reason) and know that I don't have enough time to get all the hits of Illusion Rave so instead, I opt for a charged Deadly Archer for quick damage.