Gunner Stuff Discussion ™

[Jene-chan]

S-roll JA bonus doesnt have a big impact on GuFi ? keep wondering cuz some tree using it and some not

5 points for a situation 1.10% modifier doesn't seem worth it in my book. Sometimes you have to go out of your way to get the bonus from it as well.

Just to confirm my understanding of S. Roll JA - it only affects the first JA after the S. Roll and not a chain of JAs (similar to Fury Combo Up), correct?

Also, re: points, the last 5 are a toss up and mostly up to personal preference. I feel more value from 4 points into APPR and 1 into Dive Roll Shoot (there are situations where I use it on Rifle) but if you want to go down the S. Roll JA side, it's not like it's going to make you go from doing 70K DPS to 20K DPS.

The point distribution here is a literal toss-up... on one hand, Front S-Roll x 1 into Sat Aim is actually higher DPS than Sat Aim into IF 0 on GU/FI with the skill added on top; which is also a lot less PP intensive. Naturally for mobbing S-Roll into any mobbing PA heavily benefits from this 1.2x extra

The biggest issue I see with that is that it's only utility is towards mobbing as that technique becomes locked once you start building a Chain on anything since tossing in a boosted 1.10x Sat Aim will pop the Chain and it has 0 utility for Chain Finishes. If the case for this is for mobbing, I'd say that even grants it less merit as mobbing for Gu requires negative brainpower at present.

[Dephinix]

The only time you should be going out of your way for the bonus is for chain or if you would otherwise not be able to attack anyways. It's more for compensation of unused time than a consistent bonus, definitely don't use it like that.

Yeah, just the first PA after a S Roll.

[Zephyrion]

5 points for a situation 1.10% modifier doesn't seem worth it in my book. Sometimes you have to go out of your way to get the bonus from it as well.

Just to confirm my understanding of S. Roll JA - it only affects the first JA after the S. Roll and not a chain of JAs (similar to Fury Combo Up), correct?

Also, re: points, the last 5 are a toss up and mostly up to personal preference. I feel more value from 4 points into APPR and 1 into Dive Roll Shoot (there are situations where I use it on Rifle) but if you want to go down the S. Roll JA side, it's not like it's going to make you go from doing 70K DPS to 20K DPS.



The biggest issue I see with that is that it's only utility is towards mobbing as that technique becomes locked once you start building a Chain on anything since tossing in a boosted 1.10x Sat Aim will pop the Chain and it has 0 utility for Chain Finishes. If the case for this is for mobbing, I'd say that even grants it less merit as mobbing for Gu requires negative brainpower at present.

Sroll into Sat aim/Approach is for single targets, be it as a chain ender (you actually WANT to roll whenever possible before popping your chain just for the extra juice should you skill roll JA bonus), or to keep dishing damage outside of chain. the mobbing part is the bonus one, not the other way around (S-roll into reverse tap/shift period/ Elder rebellion can still be used for situational mob configuration). Aside from that, yeah it's mostly little differences that won't change the world as you pointed out

[Jene-chan]

re: mobbing, I only very rarely use Tap/Period anymore due to S. Roll Arts being a faster, more damaging and more efficient way to mob, especially on any difficulty higher than SH since enemies are aggressive enough to clump up on you without doing anything. Elder gets more usage for finishing off outliers and, of course, as a damage option for things that either move out of range or for Dragon.

From the previous question, does anyone still use Bullet Squall 0? I'm honestly just curious at this point and I'm asking to see if there's merits to it. The one thing I was curious about with this was actually in regards to the damage cap newer bosses have. Newer bosses have a 999,999 damage cap and as players continue to get stronger, I'm wondering when or if it will make sense on certain things to phase out IF0 as an ender since damage will get lost due to us greatly exceeding the cap. I already hit 999,999 Chain 100 IF0s on Red Dragon but based on how much damage I can get with a 100 Chain on Mother with a IF0 (1.6M), there's probably anywhere from 300-500K damage lost. On things with damage reduction (rematches, et cetera) this isn't an issue, but I am curious to see if this will become an issue going forward.

Heck, even on Dragon rematch, with Techer and Weak Drink, I can hit 800K IF0s so that might be getting in that range soon too.

What do you guys think?

[Will_2_Power]

Definitely some good info on Gu (now that I'm going back to read them), particularly on the part that Striking Ups are absolutely worthless for PAs like Dead Approach or Aerial Shooting.

This is the tree I'm currently using for GuFi:

https://arks-layer.com/skillsim/skil...008dBIb0000008

On Fi side, I just opted 1 SP into Chase Advance and threw the rest of the points into the HP Ups + Striking Defense... and then whatever is absolutely leftover, I threw in them into the Wise Skills for that rare moment when I actually use Wise Stance.

Trying out Gu I do feel I benefit a lot more from APPR; I guess maybe it's the way that I play but I do find Gu to be pretty PP hungry.

And about Bullet Squall - 0 usage, I'm finding that I hardly ever use PA it unless a Fo or Te suctions the enemies and I happen to be directly over the mobs in the air (don't want to give a way my position, and even if I do reposition, it wastes time which means the mobs are already dead). Yeah, other than that, I don't really use Bullet Squall - 0.

[Dephinix]

A note about Chase Advance, it only applies to striking attacks, like Dead Approach and the kick from Heel Stab, which is why I vouched for Chase Advance Plus over it. Plus applies itself to all damage done, but it's an iffy skill to begin with. Crits are only going to give you a 5% damage bonus as well, you should max Wise Stance Up before Wise Crit for the extra 20% left in it.

[Jene-chan]

So I was slightly incorrect.

https://i.imgur.com/nEMLfBX.png

Highest IF0 I've done was on a Mother a few weeks ago.

https://i.imgur.com/4ZvQTPP.jpg

Did this in the Dragon EQ that just happened.

EDIT: Just realized that was a 95 Chain so there's a 10% mod missing on that one too. lol

Starting to actually wonder about damage loss on IF0 in non-rematch content that is damage capped. lol

[final_attack]

I have things to do this morning until afternoon (maybe), so, I'll just leave it here.

A ..... part of testing run I did from 2300 JST EQ yesterday.
BulletSquall0 as ChainFinish (I did it on whim _(:3」) ...... IF0 (non-SCharge) as ChainFinish. Yep, IF0's last burst still affected by Chain
Crafted PAs isn't at maximum power craft. but at least more than half of max craft power.

I normally do EQ in random party, but there were no open party at that time, and I happened to have mp3 player running in background, so I had the audio removed too _(:3」So, sorry.

Spoiler!

In case anyone want the downloadable file

----- Note -----

I still need confirmation if it's normally like this (only 2 shots left seen, not affected by Chain). Considering the PA is 277 frames long ...... so, I still have my doubts.
I used macro on mouse to mash the button, so, should be at max possible hits.
----------

On swiki ....
BulletSquall-0 = 2578 ....... Gear3 total power = 5182 power (thanks to 2x power for shots at Gear3)
which divided into :

• 26% kick = 2578 * 0.26 = 670 power
• 25 hits of 7% shot power = 2578 * 0.07 * 25 = 4511 power.
  Damage for 1 shot = 2578 * 0.07 = 180 power

For simplicity purpose, kick damage will be -20% (multiplied by 0.8 ) since it's not affected by ZRA ..... with total of 23 shots.
So, total power for Chain will be : ( 2578 * 0.26 * 0.8 ) + ( 2578 * 0.07 * 23 ) = 4686 power
It'll be -180 power for each shot not boosted by Chain.
with SRollJA (added x1.10) = 5155 power
-198 power for each shot not boosted by Chain

----- Note (again), a reminder -----

Still need more testing, still have doubts for BulletSquall-0's total shots due to long frame
----------

Edit :
Additional note from my previous post (modified to include +30% damage from lv3 gear (multiplied by 1.3), since BulletSquall0 is at gear lv3)
Grouped by availability of SRollJA.

Those inside " () " might or might not hit, so, take that into account when looking. If you can reliably get the hit, then look at that number instead.

Spoiler!

- Without SRollJA -
GuFi : SatAim - IF0 - SatAim - (1 hit SatAim) = 4119 ( 4590 ) * 1.3 = 5354 ( 5967 ) power
GuHu : SatAim - IF0 - SatAim - (1 hit SatAim) = 3705 ( 4176 ) * 1.3 = 4816 ( 5428 ) power
7 hit SatAim (+1 hit SatAim) = 3297 ( 3768 ) * 1.3 = 4286 ( 4898 ) power
BulletSquall0 (23 out of 25 shots hit) = 4686 power
IF0 = 3502 * 1.3 = 4552 power
ElderRebellion (long-range) = 1990 * 1.3 = 2587 power

- With SRollJA -
GuFi (SRollJA) : SatAim - IF0 - SatAim - (1 hit SatAim) = 4213 (4684) * 1.3 = 5476 ( 6089 ) power
GuHu (SRollJA) : SatAim - IF0 - SatAim - (1 hit SatAim) = 3799 ( 4270 ) * 1.3 = 4938 ( 5551 ) power
BulletSquall0 (23 out of 25 shots hit) (SRollJA) = 5155 power
7 hit SatAim (+1 hit SatAim) (SRollJA) = 3391 (3862) * 1.3 = 4408 ( 5020 ) power
IF0 (SRollJA) : 3852 * 1.3 = 5007 power
ElderRebellion (long-range, SRollJA) = 2189 * 1.3 = 2845 power

[Jene-chan]

So if I'm reading the above correctly, the answer re: Chain Finish with Bullet Squall 0 is probably not really? If you TAJA into it, you lose a lot of the hits for the latter half. I'm thinking for the time being it's either mash Sat Aim or do Sat Aim -> DA -> Sat Aim if it's a down where you won't get messed up by DA's forward movement (e.g. Mother's down) in regards to not over-damaging the 999,999 cap. This really only affects Red Dragon and regular Omega Loser but it's good to know regardless, I guess.

[final_attack]

Ah, right .... I forgot to add 4x SatAim combo ..... I'll edit my previous post to include this one (I'll also group it with SRollJA or not)

1 hit SatAim is 942 : 2 = 471 ..... with total hits of 7 to 8 (I think the 8th might or might not hit, so, I'll take that into account. Felt like it's very close to not counted by ChainFinish when I happened to use it earlier.) ....

• (non SRollJA) 471 * 7 (+471) = 3297 ( 3768 ) .... adjusted with Lv3 gear = 4286 ( 4898 ) power
• (SRollJA) ( 942 * 1.1 ) + ( 471 * 5 ) (+471) = 3391 (3862) ..... adjusted with Lv3 gear = 4408 ( 5020 ) power

If you can only get 1 hit on 4th SatAim, BulletSquall seems like a better choice. But, damage difference isn't that high anyway, so should be fine either way.

I'm not familiar with SatAim - DA - loop for ChainFinish, since I'm using tps most of the time, DA might screw up my position ..... how many PA you can cram for it? Start with DA or SatAim?
Unless the target moving away, won't it be better using SatAim combo only? Since DA not boosted by ZRA, though TAJA should mitigate the damage loss.

=================================

My test (again) earlier, 100 Chain will left 2 final hits of BulletSquall to not boosted again (but will test it once more tomorrow) ...... but at 62 Chain, all is boosted (different ChainFinish window for 62 or 100 Chain?).
If there is indeed some difference in window, should you have to do Chain Finish at 60 Chain, might as well go with BulletSquall due to PP efficiency, rather than SatAim - IF0 - SatAim - SatAim combo (unless you're GuFi or doesn't have SRollJA).