Gunner.... An Advanced or Broken Class?

[gravityvx]

Been keeping up with this thread .

As far as other treads about this.....can you do me a favor and post a link next time you cite? Thanks for the tip tho, I try not to duplicate threads. Guess i missed the topic previously....

Pretty much have to agree with most of what everyone has said here. This class has a lot of potential. But is not really a "one-size-fits-all".... At least this is my opinion. I mean without a step-attack..you cant really rush. So you have bb-gun range, with normals. With melee attacks that are very very picky to land. Honestly, i Dont think there is ANY comparison to fighter. That double saber melts with its gear. And the Knuckles hit like a Truck with a Nos kit. Fighter you up and just get up in the grill and bring the fight to the enemy. MDK...thats what Fighter is. I dont really feel that with Gunner. With gunner i feel like im nitpicking with the enemy in a very stylish way. Chippin away, and hoping that one of my Harder Hitting PA's actually lands, in the middle of a coward that seems to always be backing away at the right time. Chip-n-run. You get in close...haha get ready to lose that mechgun gear you just built up to a random enemy.

Still, the class is fun!!! I plan to bring the best out of it . Tweak it like a Tuner Car. Should keep me busy getting it to 40. Hopefully by that time the subs will come out, and i can make a super awesome sub class with this. "Fighgunner" anyone? MWAHAHAHAH wtf...boom.

First, I want to address the bolded, our approach is Dead Approach. I've found that gunner needs to have many palettes with their gun to be effective as possible. Meaning, say you needed to close in you simply switch to your dead approach palette use it, switch back and continue attacking. Assuming that you have PP maxed, it is extremely easy to recover whatever you lost using this. Now, with that outta the way on to the damage and PAs, I would say the only ones I'd consider worth using are Reverse Trap, Bullet Squall & Satellite Aim. As obvious as it already is, the class isn't actually a ranged, but a melee with ranged at it's disposal.

With max the PP skill maxed I can pull off maybe 6 or 7 Satellites in a row if I'm in mid air, which is our only "high" burst damage PA but the sheer number of times we can actually fire this makes it highly effective on bosses, or MPA. If there are alot of enemies swarmed around, the Reverse Trap > Bullet Squall is also pretty effective given the leap at the end of Reverse Trap puts you well above your enemies, it might not be as effective as say just spamming satellite but that isn't very fun now is it? The thing I like most about gunner is we are almost impossible to hit and very easy to reposition yourself for another combo mid air if you know how to flip/shoot correctly. All in all, I don't think gunner is a joke class, they do plenty of damage, very flashy and probably the most fun I've had on this game playing them.

[Artificial Sky]

I agree on your point that the third, slow-mo dodge is superfluous. It does have a ridiculous amount of invincibility frames, but spends too much time losing position. I just forego the third flip altogether. I stutter after the second flip to avoid it.

I'm hoping that SEGA just patches out the slow-mo effect. Stylistically, the last flip is the coolest looking, but it would be more useful at normal speeds.

As for your main question, Gunner is really balanced at the moment. Like you said, the standard attack combo is weak, no matter what enhancements are in place. However, Satellite Aim, Aerial Shooting and Bullet Squall are powerful and cheap enough to boost DPS to acceptable levels. In fact, the PAs are more than enough and might even push the Gunner into the "broken class" designation.

As for mob control, you summed it up. The only possibility is Gunner/Hunter Warcry or using Showtime to group up mobs and spam Satellite Aim o Reverse Tap, depending on preference.

Gunner is very dynamic. Perhaps not advanced, since it is straight forward and easy to pick up on. But I understand your sentiment that there is something powerful lurking in this class that hasn't been discovered yet. I don't know what, only time will tell.

I'm planning to main Gunner/Ranger. Twin Machineguns are too fun to replace with launchers. Weak Bullet with Chain Trigger will be awesome as well.

[Rien]

Gunner just needs longer invincibility frames with their shift-button dodge. There's simply too many holes for it to even do anything (most of the time using Dead Approach is more effective than pressing shift... assuming you have PP remaining)

[NoiseHERO]

what? my shift dodge thingie usually saves me just fine. D:

A trillion times better than ranger's normal dodge.

I just hate the fact that it's in slow-motion and it sends you 23423423423423 feet away from your enemy, since the class is forcing you to melee anyway...

[gigawuts]

The shift dodge is amazing, what are you guys even talking about. If you find you're getting hit then you really, really need to work on timing it, plus start using it to actually reposition yourself.

For the downtime after the third, just do a roll.

[Syklo]

The shift dodge is amazing, what are you guys even talking about. If you find you're getting hit then you really, really need to work on timing it, plus start using it to actually reposition yourself.

For the downtime after the third, just do a roll.

Or, as i said earlier, perform the triple dodge in midair to begin with. The falling animation that will follow after the third dodge will instantly cancel the supposed downtime.
Unless your third dodge lands you onto a higher ledge...then do the underlined

[IndigoNovember]

First, I want to address the bolded, our approach is Dead Approach.

Wouldn't Aerial Shooting work better? Doesn't knock away, costs 5 less PP, launches (in case you have Aerial Advance).

[gravityvx]

Wouldn't Aerial Shooting work better? Doesn't knock away, costs 5 less PP, launches (in case you have Aerial Advance).

Maybe I worded what I said wrong, I was talking strictly getting at your enemy as fast as possible without the worry of losing your gear, so if so my bad. It depends on the distance between me and the target, as Dead Approaches distance covered is extremely fast and far compared to any of your other skills and when I use it as a gap closer I don't aim directly at the enemy, but above them so not to knock them back, while it has a high PP usage, 1 normal attack will return 95% of that last Dead Approach if you are speced down into PP return. As I said before it's just best to have many palettes on gunner to use them to their full potential, Aerial Shooting would be great if you're already in range of the enemy.

[Xaeris]

Yeah, Gunner definitely has some shortcomings, especially compared to the other two new classes. I don't think the same amount of effort went into designing as did Fighter or Techer. For one thing, we have one weapon. The rifle and gunslash can be taken out in niche situations, but they're not auxiliary weapons like twin daggers or talises are. It wouldn't be a big deal if the Twin Machine Gun Gear did something more interesting than extra damage and had a bunch of utility effects like Sword Gear, but it doesn't.

And then, the trees speak to this lack of planning even further. The Fighter tree is a masterpiece. It makes me weep to see how excellently designed it is. You can spend all 45 points without ever feeling like you have to waste a single one thanks to the fact that all the garbage stat ups are behind the abilities. The Techer tree has its own problems, but it's the same deal. Then, you look at Gunner and see our best ability is behind 5 (or 10, depending on your perspective) worthless skill points.

Despite that though, I enjoy playing Gunner and I'm not jumping ship. It'd just be nice if it were brought to par with the others. I have some hopes for Wednesday, in sub classes. Sure, everyone's getting subclasses, but I think Gunner will draw the most benefit by subbing Ranger. 2x Weak Hit Advance, and Standing Snipe (should work in the air at the very least) will up Satellite Aim's damage considerably.

[Daggart]

The Ranger topic (And I guess the Japanese wiki) says that standing snipe only works if you're in place on the ground, so not in midair.

Gunner with weak hit advance and weak bullet sounds cool though, though I'm sure everyone thought that.