Gunner.... An Advanced or Broken Class?

[ZcRaider]

Gunner.....

This is a spoiler. Please only read if you have Gunner, or are fine with the risk of spoilage. Some like to know before they invest time, while others want to experience it for themselves. I respect both standpoints.

Spoiler!

I've gotten my Gunner up to lvl 21 now and leveling pretty quickly I may add. Just got my Spartian machine guns (which i may add, im slightly disappointed at the bullet effects. Not as flashy as the AI version).

So I really started applying and trying to see how practical and effective these Mechgun Pa's REALLY ARE. Im a little lazy right now so bare with me for not having the exact name for each PA I mention. So here is my take:

Pros:
-Stylish
-Agile, Good Invinciblity Frames when Dodging
-Gunkata
-Matrix Slow-mo Effects
-Ranged
-PA's Damage Potential
-Chain Damage Potential

Cons:
-Mechgun base attack seems a little weak, considering no weak bullet (Spartan Mech +8, 17 light, shoot +30 = 388 ATP ). Hits 12 times with full combo, compared to 9 the assault rifle gives, even tho its more powerful.
-Gunkata keeps you stationary while performing. This is more a stylish effect for it does not give invinciblity frames while shooting from different positions. Prefer being able to move while shooting.
-Triple dodging leaves you open for attack at the end of slow-mo
-Slow-mo slows YOU DOWN.....and not the ENEMY. Breaks in between are too long, which opens a very clear chance for the enemy to break your Mechgun Gear Damage Boost. *<------
-PA Damage Inconsistent when used against Mobs of enemies.
-Chain is easly broken by cheap AI mechinics. You get hit, you lose it. If the enemy jumps out of shooting range...your screwed. Bosses do this alot.

*Note: I actually have an Idea for the slow-mo. I know there are client server issues with "real" slow-mo. So i can understand the psudo effect. My idea is, make the enemies stagger...or pause in the attack coding when a player does slow-mo. Make it look like the AI is goin "wow...hes moving in Sloooooowww...mooooooooo" It can be like..a mini stun effect on the enemies while you slow down. Otherwise in its current state...it just gives the enemy more time to hit you after the slow-mo. I imagine this effect will compound negatively when "Very Hard" and "Ultimate" modes come out.....

Now I know there are people that main this class, and are really good at it. So my experience might not apply to someone's view. However, im not really head over heels about this class. At face value, the class seems pretty badass. You get a pair of Mechguns, really cool Matrix Pa's, and some nice dodges.

But...the reality is that the mixing of ranged attack mechanics, with PA's that only pratically land hits when extreamely close...kinda defeats the purpose of using mechguns if you ask me. And on top of that, you cant really move while your shooting. You have to dodge cancel, to avoid enemy attacks. Now for some this is not a problem, and adds to the stylish aspect of this class. Still, i find it more pratical to use the Gun Slash for range and melee, than my current level of mastery over the Mechguns. Also as a veteran rifle user...i cant really say the mechguns offer better mobility when i can move and shoot at the same time with the assault rifle. Not to mention its dodge cancellable as well. The saving grace with the dodging in this class is that you can shoot while your rolling in midair. But to me..its hard to just-attack into them...and they really dont do much damage. Not to mention it leaves you open after the third roll that induces the slow-mo..which makes it even MORE LIKELY TO GET HIT...at its conclusion.

The PA's i must say...look awesome. But they dont really work well with mobs. There are a few exceptions. The leg spinning PA's reminds me of the double sabers spinning action. Its actually very good at what it does. It even has a chance to stun enemies. I really think it is one of the best PA's for this class. Next is the chargable rising Leg Kick PA. This PA, hit like a TRUCK. Very powerful, and has the ability to hit multple targets. But its more of a finisher. At the end it leaves you high in the air. This leaves you with very few options. Use a PA that rains bullets, fall to the ground. Which brings me to the bullet rain pa. Seems to only work when the enemy...again is extreamly close. There really is only one other noteable PA i wish to mention, and thats "Messiah Time". This is the "matrix" PA that slows you down while you perform various matrix moves. This pa has the potiential to hit many times...thats if you have a turbo controller. But even then, you will find yourself mashing away, and praying that those bullets which have such short range....and have a predetermined direction.... TO ACTUALLY HIT SOMETHING.

In summary, i really like the way this class looks. But i dont feel that it is very pratical against enemy hordes. This effect is compounded if you solo a lot. The PA's stort ranged melee attacks defeats the purpose of having twin automatic machine pistols. I wish this class had more PA's that enhanced the capabilites of the Mechguns, this would balance out the close ranged melee attacks. Prime example would be like the assault rifles' PA that unleashes a 12 round burst of daisy pushing goodness....

I'll continue tinkering with the class, see if i can make it work better. I came up with a few combos that work well. Disco Kick > Charge Rising Kick > Bullet Rain seems to work moderately well. I have "Messiah Time" on its own pallette, and I just-attack into them with my turbo controller and "Pray" that i hit where i "Spray". Without the crutch of the turbo..i have a hard time making that PA work without destroying my controller...or my mouse's right click button aswell......>_<

Many newbies will jump into this class, spaming "messiah time" and floating in the air hoping to hit stuff. But after a while, they find that this class is not very good at mob control. And even with some bosses...its easy for the bosses to move out of the range of your attacks... Then there gonna try to use the Chain Starter to compensate for the lost hits....and find that by the time they get to 50 hits and land some serious damage by concluding it.... the boss has jumped clear across the map....or morphed into a tank and drives away from you, etc etc. Really the only sure win with Chain Starter, is using it on Stationary targets. Good example is on Varda's exposed Core. Anything else...pray that your lock-on does not fail you. Like it does for me soooooo many times >_<.

So...Im gonna say that this class is an Advanced class, with great damage potential and very defensive dodging. Very good at fighting only a few enemies. Great potential for cross classing when the sub classes come out. However, it is a class that will...indeed...take some time. Much tinkering is needed to figure out what to use, at the right time, in very specific situations. Only then does this class seem to shine with the afterglow of Neo's Aura......

[Dinosaur]

There's a Gunner discussion thread for this kind of thing.

As for Gunner itself, I feel that you have to treat Twin Mechgun playstyle like a melee class that happens to have a ranged normal attack. I don't find mobility to be a problem either. Dead Approach can be used as an air dash and Aerial Shooting is your replacement to Step Attack. You also get two separate evasive actions which is pretty absurd. As for Chain, you just have to be smart about it and not go for a ridiculous 50 Chain on a Dragon or whatever mobile enemy there is.

As melee classes are my favorite, I felt right at home with this class.

[NoiseHERO]

In my experience so far...

This just seems like a complicated joke class...

-Long ranged normal attack, but all your PAs melee attacks with "decent" damage.

-The slo-mo concept existing in general...

-A bunch of extremely useless skills except for like one or two and all the other just sound situational.

-The only real support to a party full of members than can kill 10 times faster than you soloing if they have to is that I can SE bosses easily...

And again with the PAs... I'd really would've prefer if this class was more "range" or at least since it's mechguns "mid-range" focused. all of the acrobatic stripper kicks just hurt my feelings. I'm mostly leveling this because I don't want to just go with fighter/hunter, and I already have another character for melee force. And I'm not interested in normal ranger in any way shape or form.

But I think this class can be decent as a sub.

[gigawuts]

They're less like ranger and more like melee classes, as has been pointed out. Try playing hunter or fighter, then playing gunner the same way. The only differences are the range you can hit things at, the different dodges, lack of enemy flinch on JA, and no flinching when you hit a darker or sa/dinian shield. Also headshots. Pretty much, just the dodge, range, and R-ATK properties.

[Dinosaur]

Also, Attack PP restore 10 with Rifle is really really nice

[valmont]

pretty much what Dinosaur and gigawuts said..
ive even switched my main class from Ranger to Gunner because its more fun..
less effective of course, but its more fun and stylish.. XD
what this class lacks is crowd control PA..
i just can hope the new TMG PAs will have a decent CC..

[ZcRaider]

Been keeping up with this thread .

As far as other treads about this.....can you do me a favor and post a link next time you cite? Thanks for the tip tho, I try not to duplicate threads. Guess i missed the topic previously....

Pretty much have to agree with most of what everyone has said here. This class has a lot of potential. But is not really a "one-size-fits-all".... At least this is my opinion. I mean without a step-attack..you cant really rush. So you have bb-gun range, with normals. With melee attacks that are very very picky to land. Honestly, i Dont think there is ANY comparison to fighter. That double saber melts with its gear. And the Knuckles hit like a Truck with a Nos kit. Fighter you up and just get up in the grill and bring the fight to the enemy. MDK...thats what Fighter is. I dont really feel that with Gunner. With gunner i feel like im nitpicking with the enemy in a very stylish way. Chippin away, and hoping that one of my Harder Hitting PA's actually lands, in the middle of a coward that seems to always be backing away at the right time. Chip-n-run. You get in close...haha get ready to lose that mechgun gear you just built up to a random enemy.

Still, the class is fun!!! I plan to bring the best out of it . Tweak it like a Tuner Car. Should keep me busy getting it to 40. Hopefully by that time the subs will come out, and i can make a super awesome sub class with this. "Fighgunner" anyone? MWAHAHAHAH wtf...boom.

[Pillan]

Personally, I have to say that Gunner feels more like a planned extension of Fighter than a class of its own. Of course, that would make sense given that the combination of the two looks just like Fighgunner from PSU.

Gunner is the only class where its skills do not synergize in any way with its weapon choices (rather, weapon choice, in this case). The damage reset on the gear is just annoying, especially with poison or burn, the PP recharge does not matter much for machineguns, and the chain is far too annoying for a mere maximum of two seconds of 5x damage every minute. And once you compare the machinegun gear to any other gear or the chain trigger to the effective 30 seconds of 2x damage per minute and a half of weak bullet, it becomes even more infuriating. (Yes, you can get longer time with weak bullet, but at that point the PP drain becomes limiting unless you are in a party.)

When you think about the effect of say, the PP recharge while using any other weapon, the difference does start to become near the value of Weak Bullet, especially in melee classes. My main problem is that it is the only class that I could not give myself a reason to main in any case outside of combined with Ranger (and then it is really "do I want to use mechs or launcher?"). But infinite dagger air time is reason enough to subclass it.

EDIT:

Just for fun, I decided to do a bit of math and compare chain 100 at level 10 to a single weak bullet with the skill at 10. The single weak bullet allows you to do about 2.5x the amount of damage over the interval. That is, of course, in addition to the fact that it is at least 100 times easier to use a single weak bullet and switch to your favorite machinegun than to get a chain to 100.

[Cortte]

I tend to use my skills in two sets. First a 1v1 set which is...forget the name, but that skill where you kick the enemy into the air and then rush up to them if charged, then JA into satellite shot, and once again into dead approach. This does incredible damage to a single enemy and just looks so flashy. I love getting it perfectly. Then secondly I have a set up with 3 satellite shots. This is for big enemies that don't stagger, and bosses. Get a nice 20 chain and use satellite shot 5 times. That for me is a cool 10k damage right there. This class is really only suited for a melee range. Mid range if using that kick PA since it slides you across the screen a bit before kicking. Personally I just love this class.

[Syklo]

Not sure if anyone has pointed this out (too lazy to read everything) but regarding this statement:
"-Triple dodging leaves you open for attack at the end of slow-mo"
This does not apply if you perform the triple dodging MIDAIR, or more technically, if you allow enough falling space at the end of slow-mo. Alternatively you could just dodge cancel that lag phase, but you get a lag phase at the end of the dodge anyway...

I only know little about twin mech guns, as I just use an Ares Vis and I haven't unlocked the other 3 classes yet, but I felt like pointing that out.