Force build with multiple trees

[milranduil]

Disagree with FoBr, do this instead:

http://ryuhiroshi.funpic.de/pso2/ski...OqBGA6JIJk0008

If taking FoBr you should be using weak element all the time unless you prefer doing less damage than FoFi.

I'm assuming you have Weak Crit + Ab up 2 for maximzed damage output? Only reason I have points put into avg stance is for stuff like in Amd TA where there are a couple spawns you need to kill that aren't elementally weak to your current tree (Dagans/Krahdas spawn for example). Also, I was too lazy to buy another BR tree just for weak stance crit :3

[Chdata]

Quite a bit of stuff I disagree with for adios's trees.

Fire tree: http://tinyurl.com/kllt9bp

I personally put Just reversal in all the classes I expect to use more often as subclasses, such as Techer, Fighter, and Braver. Which is why I'd not put that point in Fo. An extra point in T-atk kinda useless. Rest of the tree is fine though.

(Also more on the just reversal thing: I guess it just depends which one you want that extra point in.)

Lightning tree: http://tinyurl.com/mrdoe6u

Again, if you left just reversal to your subclasses, it'd be better to have tech JA advance at 5 SP and max the other charge advance. That way you have slightly more damage if you miss a JA.

Hybrid FO tree (I use this with dark TE tree ONLY for the extra 58 T-atk and 6% Chg Adv): http://tinyurl.com/kehlw8ohttp://tinyurl.com/kllt9bp

Wasted points in burn boost and T-atk up, both of those T-atk ups. The build I linked below for non-fire would be like this but with 5 extra points you can put into either the first flame or lightning mastery, or rare mastery if you wish.

If you sub TE, you have 2 options really that are the most useful:

PP Battery (max PP regen and fire/lightning damage boosting): http://tinyurl.com/lynyfbx
Dark tree: http://tinyurl.com/lmcvvzy

Don't really need to max PP convert and dunno about the extra points in shifta advance. But for the dark tree, I'd max PP restore instead of PP convert just cause you don't need more than 1 point if it's meant for the dark tree.

Also I highly don't recommend subbing Fi anymore for Fo because FoBr is a better damage boost, and less conditional for Fo's than Br/Wise stance. Unless you really need the knuckle dash. Not to mention, weak stance is at most -10% damage and Br/Wise are -20% damage for being placed wrong.

If sub BR for elemental weak areas, you again have 1 option:

FO/BR sub tree: http://tinyurl.com/mk57q5j

A better option imo is to max weak stance, and cater to your braver class if you ever want to main braver as well. As FoBr you should never use average stance, so why bother using it? That whole left side is a waste of skill points because weak stance applies even if you don't hit a weak spot but the enemy is weak to the element of your spell. I have my own skill tree included in the link below.



First of all, here's the skill trees I have for all of my classes with Fo main in mind. This includes what I use for Fo, Te, Br, and Fi mainly. These all also vater to planning to play the other classes as a main sometimes.

http://ryuhiroshi.funpic.de/pso2/ski...nfsNJ2HnIb0006



I have bought one extra Fo and one extra Te tree for a fire build as well.

http://ryuhiroshi.funpic.de/pso2/ski...nfsNJ2HnId0006

This is for making the best usage of your fire tree and its charge speed. You'll see really good burst damage with PP convert and T-atk mag PB if you have the PP regen one. On the lightning side, if you like lightning spam you can also put more points into bolt tech PP save instead of JA advance.

I don't recommend PP convert with more than 6 points for any tree that isn't a fire tree because all non-fire spells can become self-sustained by PP convert with at least +2 PP and lightning with bolt tech PP save is almost sustainable with just one point in PP convert. You could probably max PP convert for nafoie if you wish.

Note that I'm giving you the bare minimal of the skill trees as many of them have points left over.


Also yeah, points in Dex up and extra points in weak critical is kinda useless and a big waste of points to me.

[Darki]

Really? Allot, but not striked?

Touchè.

I could say that I did it as a gag to equal the OP's mistake, but then I'd be lying. <_< But hey, give me a break, I'm not native English speaker. I just loved that "Alot" webcomic, lol.

[Chdata]

I like that alot...

[Quattrochi]

Also I highly don't recommend subbing Fi anymore for Fo because FoBr is a better damage boost, and less conditional for Fo's than Br/Wise stance. Unless you really need the knuckle dash. Not to mention, weak stance is at most -10% damage and Br/Wise are -20% damage for being placed wrong.

Weak stance is not necessarily a better damage boost nor is it any less conditional than Brave/Wise stance's requirements. I have found it very easy to use Brave stance as all it requires is for the enemies to look at me and I am far away enough for them not to get turned around. The targeted point does not matter as long as I am standing in front of them.

Force/Fighter will always have 2x damage with their chosen Mastery and Brave Stance maxed while Force/Braver has 1.5x damage to everything by using the correct weakness and around 2.1x if the fully Mastered element is the weakness. That means at best Force/Braver is only 5% better than Force/Fighter. This excludes the fact that Force/Fighter has better base stats.

According to the Japanese Wiki, elemental weakness varies by the enemy from 5% to 25%. That means that Force/Braver will do at most 1.9x with the other five elements, which is still lower than the 2x from just electrocuting everything. We won't get into going to the floating continent, sanctum, or dealing with bird darkers.

And Wise stance is stronger than that...

But if you have the money to invest in multiple trees and really want to play up the elemental weakness thing, then it's still a viable option and situationally better than Brave stance.

[Z-0]

Recommend Adrenaline for fi sub tree. Also Z-O riz says you suck

So mean!

And yes, FoFi is definitely not useless compared to FoBr. I actually do not play FoBr for TAs because FoFi is a lot more useful for a TACO set. Only use FoBr in Nab1 myself. I mean, fire can one shot stuff in Lilipa TA and you need a mix in Amduscia, so...

For normal play I just use FoTe for PP regeneration and Territory Burst, and use a Dark Tree if I'm going to a Dark-weak area, which leaves no space for FoBr.

[Chdata]

Hmm, I only use elemental weakness against enemies ;o Isn't that standard?

Also Br would be 2.26x damage with the mastery of the correct element.

[UnLucky]

I'm assuming you have Weak Crit + Ab up 2 for maximzed damage output? Only reason I have points put into avg stance is for stuff like in Amd TA where there are a couple spawns you need to kill that aren't elementally weak to your current tree (Dagans/Krahdas spawn for example). Also, I was too lazy to buy another BR tree just for weak stance crit :3

But you can just hit their weak points for massive damage!


Also here's a post I made in another thread about this:

A Braver sub could either get both stances or only Weak Stance. There's really nothing else that benefits a Force main.

It's more damage than with a Fighter sub's Brave Stance, but less than Wise Stance, though if you only use Weak Stance then you don't have to switch all the time. I wouldn't recommend Average Stance since it's lower damage overall than Fighter, so simply don't play as Fo/Br if you can't target weak points or elemental weaknesses.

PP regen is a tradeoff for damage. Techer has only Element Weak Hit for Force's three elements, so Braver or Fighter end up much stronger for those, but you miss out on the PP regen. With PP Recovery J on your mag, Ketos Proi as the PB, and a gunslash otherwise, it's not really much of a problem. For wind/light/dark, Techer can add a lot more damage than any other sub, along with its PP skills (maybe not all of them), but this only beats Fo/Fi using fire/ice/bolt in Brave Stance on the same targets because Force needs 5 more SP to max all of their skills, though it is stronger than a Fo/Br using wind/light/dark, then again Fo/Br against fire/ice/bolt-weak enemies (or those with weak points) is far and away stronger.

Sorry if that's hard to absorb, Force's skill tree is harder to build because there really is no single best spec. If you only have one tree, and you don't want to level multiple characters to cap, then you can't go wrong with a general build like this. It covers all your bases with respectable damage in multiple fields, plus a lot of utility. One of the other builds linked in this thread, along with a Fighter sub would also do quite well in nearly every area, even if you're not exploiting weaknesses.

[Quattrochi]

Also Br would be 2.26x damage with the mastery of the correct element.

I was estimating it as 1.5, but it is actually 1.57 or so. So, yes, I was off a bit, my bad. That said, Weak stance is at most situationally 10% better instead of 5% better.

[milranduil]

Quite a bit of stuff I disagree with for adios's trees.



I personally put Just reversal in all the classes I expect to use more often as subclasses, such as Techer, Fighter, and Braver. Which is why I'd not put that point in Fo. An extra point in T-atk kinda useless. Rest of the tree is fine though.

(Also more on the just reversal thing: I guess it just depends which one you want that extra point in.)



Again, if you left just reversal to your subclasses, it'd be better to have tech JA advance at 5 SP and max the other charge advance. That way you have slightly more damage if you miss a JA.



Wasted points in burn boost and T-atk up, both of those T-atk ups. The build I linked below for non-fire would be like this but with 5 extra points you can put into either the first flame or lightning mastery, or rare mastery if you wish.



Don't really need to max PP convert and dunno about the extra points in shifta advance. But for the dark tree, I'd max PP restore instead of PP convert just cause you don't need more than 1 point if it's meant for the dark tree.

Also I highly don't recommend subbing Fi anymore for Fo because FoBr is a better damage boost, and less conditional for Fo's than Br/Wise stance. Unless you really need the knuckle dash. Not to mention, weak stance is at most -10% damage and Br/Wise are -20% damage for being placed wrong.



A better option imo is to max weak stance, and cater to your braver class if you ever want to main braver as well. As FoBr you should never use average stance, so why bother using it? That whole left side is a waste of skill points because weak stance applies even if you don't hit a weak spot but the enemy is weak to the element of your spell. I have my own skill tree included in the link below.



First of all, here's the skill trees I have for all of my classes with Fo main in mind. This includes what I use for Fo, Te, Br, and Fi mainly. These all also vater to planning to play the other classes as a main sometimes.

http://ryuhiroshi.funpic.de/pso2/ski...nfsNJ2HnIb0006



I have bought one extra Fo and one extra Te tree for a fire build as well.

http://ryuhiroshi.funpic.de/pso2/ski...nfsNJ2HnId0006

This is for making the best usage of your fire tree and its charge speed. You'll see really good burst damage with PP convert and T-atk mag PB if you have the PP regen one. On the lightning side, if you like lightning spam you can also put more points into bolt tech PP save instead of JA advance.

I don't recommend PP convert with more than 6 points for any tree that isn't a fire tree because all non-fire spells can become self-sustained by PP convert with at least +2 PP and lightning with bolt tech PP save is almost sustainable with just one point in PP convert. You could probably max PP convert for nafoie if you wish.

Note that I'm giving you the bare minimal of the skill trees as many of them have points left over.


Also yeah, points in Dex up and extra points in weak critical is kinda useless and a big waste of points to me.

I don't have the energy to compartmentalize your post, so...

1) I spec'd my fire tree when I still used it together with dark TE tree which has no room for even 1 point for Just Reversal (see below for more dark tree expl.).

2) Lightning tree, yes I should move it to FI and BR (if you play lightning FO/TE... well wtf are you doing).

3) I strictly said I use this in dark areas only (Floating Continent, Sanctum). There is no better way to maximize your damage output.

4) PPConv 6 is not enough to keep up with fire tree spam. By investing 9, you might as well invest 10 for the extra PP/s. This is a non-dark tree so you again want to boost your damage as much as possible (why I dump my last 3 into Shifta Adv). Arguably though, you could dump 2 into Shifta Adv and 1 into JR for use with for fire tree for 5 SP in Tech JA Adv. For dark tree, you need PPConv 6 if you ever cast multiple non-charged Namegids (very useful for Dirandals, stragglers, etc.)

5) I have my own personal bias with FO BR including avg stance, but that's because I play it more often than I should over FO FI (tacos for example). 99% of the time, weak crit and Ab Ups aren't going to reduce your dependent number of hits to kill an enemy. I'd rather have a decent amount of points in Avg for the random occurrence where you need the extra damage to N-shot something as opposed to (N+1)-shot it that isn't elementally weak or have an easily exposed weak point. In reality, I probably should have played FO FI in that instance, but whatever. Also, if you really are worried that much about having BR be a main, then just buy another tree... you should NEVER potentially sacrifice damage on one class combo, simply because you MIGHT the sub class as a main later on. It's just a waste.