New player looking for advice (lengthy post)

[Crevox]

Very, very few things are "that bad", people are just obsessed with what is considered "OP/really good" and if you don't use that, then, well, you must be bad.

Hunter is fine. It does a lot of damage, it's just not the best; and just because it's not the best doesn't mean "OMG DONT PLAY IT SWITCH YOUR BUILD NOW."

Another day, another newbie asking for help. Another day where the PSO-World community gets into an argument over it and starts telling him he should play a certain way instead of just giving some simple advice.

[SociableTyrannosaur]

under normal conditions you're right, most builds that take any real thought into account and don't just throw points around willy nilly are serviceable, however when you consider the fact that DPS and CC are important in current endgame missions where a solid team can be the difference between an A or an S and in turn a better drop table or maybe even another run, I'm sorry to say that "just have fun" isn't getting the job done. PUGs are notorious for having a bunch of people who don't understand that not everything is equal and what looks good in theory doesn't align with reality. I'm all for helping people get the most out of whatever class combination they decide on, but it's doing them and the community a disservice by not telling them the rest of the story. I have friends who to this day don't even have their skill trees filled in because they just don't see how much allocating 30 skill points is going to affect their experience and then bitch me out because even my Te/Fo with a heretic saw is out DPSing and clearly out mobbing their Br/Hus. Imagine how upset they are when they see my Br/Hu who's 10-20 lvls below them clearing rooms before they even get out their first PA. These same people struggle to reliably rank in the top 6 during TD runs while it's considered a fluke if I don't rank number 1. And while that may sound like I'm trying to pat myself on the back, I consider myself to be underequipped and unskilled compared to many others even in our own forums. I just happen to do my damnedest to make the most of what I have.

We have a responsibility as a community to inform newcomers. And while sometimes we just have to let them learn on their own, we may as well not post at all if we're going to simply tell them "do whatever you want, it won't make any difference in the end". Too many people rely on the upper 10% to do all the work rather than try to close the gap. There's a limit to how far "Just play the game and let god sort it out" will get you. It would be one thing if the people who put in the effort were directly rewarded for their endeavors, but this game doesn't reward individual skill, it hardly rewards team effort but in the places it does, I'd hope we would care enough to cultivate players who add to our experiences, not just take up space. They care enough to ask us for information, it's no small insult to give them practically nothing for their trouble.

[Crevox]

current endgame missions

What end game missions? The majority of mining defenses I'm in are carried by 2-3 people that have the "OP" builds, and it's a joke. If we weren't getting carried, it would actually be 12 people working together. The majority of the time the burst barriers and such also go unused.

What else is there? Extreme quests? I've duoed with a friend as a Force through all of them, completing all the objectives. They're not hard either. They don't demand very much from you. The only thing you get with an OP build is extremely fast kills, which is nowhere near required.

[SociableTyrannosaur]

...right...let others carry you. What would happen if you joined a pug with people who let themselves be carried the whole time? failed missions. I've seen it happen more than once. 2-3 people who can kill extremely fast but can't manage to aggro everything and 9-10 people who just throw out all the random they can and hope it sticks. No one guarding towers, no one watching maps. 10 people swarming ragne at wave 5 and taking 2 minutes to kill him when 3 people withe a good build could do it in under 10 seconds. No one even collecting crystals. That's the group you're endorsing. You can have it.

I have seen people who take 5 minutes - no embellishment here - to clear the 3 enemies you have to solo in SH sanctum Time attack. The sad part is they were using one of those OP builds and even at lvl 55 have no idea how to play the game. Tey switched from Gu/Ra to Gu/Hu because they were tired of "WB so the rest do more damage" but don't want to use the grind system, don't want to save their money to buy good equipment from the player shops, don't want to learn just attacks, find it too much trouble to s roll which doesn't matter since they don't JA anyway and run TACOs just to get more money to buy clothes - yet they were tired of being a WB battery and want to do more damage. I realize this is an extreme case, but in the end they just got bored with using WB but still want everyone else to do all the work.

People who expect to be carried never try and are less than worthless. Why promote that mentality?

[Zipzo]

Also how does Braver/Techer sound, any good? I really wanted to delve more into that now that I've tried the new class briefly.

Absolutely nothing wrong with Braver/Techer as far as I can tell.

[Crevox]

...right...let others carry you. What would happen if you joined a pug with people who let themselves be carried the whole time? failed missions. I've seen it happen more than once. 2-3 people who can kill extremely fast but can't manage to aggro everything and 9-10 people who just throw out all the random they can and hope it sticks. No one guarding towers, no one watching maps. 10 people swarming ragne at wave 5 and taking 2 minutes to kill him when 3 people withe a good build could do it in under 10 seconds. No one even collecting crystals. That's the group you're endorsing. You can have it.

I have seen people who take 5 minutes - no embellishment here - to clear the 3 enemies you have to solo in SH sanctum Time attack. The sad part is they were using one of those OP builds and even at lvl 55 have no idea how to play the game. Tey switched from Gu/Ra to Gu/Hu because they were tired of "WB so the rest do more damage" but don't want to use the grind system, don't want to save their money to buy good equipment from the player shops, don't want to learn just attacks, find it too much trouble to s roll which doesn't matter since they don't JA anyway and run TACOs just to get more money to buy clothes - yet they were tired of being a WB battery and want to do more damage. I realize this is an extreme case, but in the end they just got bored with using WB but still want everyone else to do all the work.

People who expect to be carried never try and are less than worthless. Why promote that mentality?

For a Tyrannosaur, you can't read very well.

Just because there's not an OP class there doesn't mean you just lose. 12 people can win missions easily without being "carried." Not everybody has to play OP classes. For the Ragne scenario? No, it wouldn't take that long. Just because a player isn't playing an OP class doesn't mean they're bad; there's a difference between bad players and players that just aren't playing the OP. Just because I don't spam Shunka as a Braver doesn't mean my Namegid spam on the Ragne's core doesn't do good damage, especially with a weak bullet. 12 people doing something like that will take Ragne down in no time flat. Like I said, there's a difference between bad players and bad classes. Force may be "the worst", but it's still perfectly viable for all content.

Could it take that long? Yeah, it could, but not because of the classes, simply because of bad players, which are completely unrelated.

I have seen people who take 5 minutes - no embellishment here - to clear the 3 enemies you have to solo in SH sanctum Time attack. The sad part is they were using one of those OP builds and even at lvl 55 have no idea how to play the game.

Thank you for proving my point. Bad players are bad players. Just because a player wants to play Hunter or doesn't want to play Braver doesn't mean they're bad, it means they don't want to play Braver. They can still do just fine.

People who expect to be carried never try and are less than worthless. Why promote that mentality?

Just because a player isn't playing an OP class doesn't mean they expect to be carried. I can spam 210k namegids nonstop on a boss. Is that OP class damage? No, but it's perfectly fine. It's enough for all content, and doesn't need to be carried.

Again, there's a difference between a bad player and a bad class. There really are no bad classes; just ones that aren't OP like the ones you expect everyone to play. Don't automatically assume that a newbie wanting to play a non-OP class is a bad player.

Besides, what does it matter to you? The only random party content you can "fail" at really is Falz (take too long or die) or Mining Defense (lose towers). If you're out in a random field, everything is just a zerg fest anyways, so who cares how the other people play. If you wanna be OP, go right ahead, but it shouldn't matter to you at all how other people play. Most of all, you shouldn't be forcing the "OP" or your playstyle on anyone else either. It's a game. Let people have fun, and if a player is bad, a player is bad; them playing the OP class won't help that.

[Ratazana]

Can you imagine if shit like this happened in the real world?

Spartan Nub: "Who cares shield wall is OP? I want to stay in the back throwing stones! I can kill a guy just fine if I hit him in the head."

I don't know what is worse. People who take leeching for granted or people who don't even realize they are leeching. No consideration at all for the guy doing the heavy work.

[Chdata]

It's not heavy work to spam shunka when you're maxed

Or spam Gu PAs with guld mila



I often get in the top 4 damage against falz (you can tell because he aim meteors at you) by simple using infinity fire and standing still only clicking my mouse. Even with the existence of shunka I still do sometimes.

I don't have a high level br yet but combat escape + invincibility + shunka.

[Ratazana]

Let me tell you a secret, gunners spamming nothing but IF and shunka only bravers are NOT carrying the TD. They are barely carrying their own weight, which is the least a person should do in a team.

[SakoHaruo]

Absolutely nothing wrong with Braver/Techer as far as I can tell.

You sir did not watch the video in your own post.

My goodness. that was some really shitty damage. You benefit nothing to the party. Like, I don't even want your Resta.