I said there needs to be more, not that there aren't any at all. 3:Originally Posted by WildarmsRE5
I said there needs to be more, not that there aren't any at all. 3:
Oh, there's plenty more than that. They're just either trash or extremely rare.
Usually fixing something means you're correcting it to properly demonstrate facts, not your own lousy opinion.FTFY
I think the Techtor is a great concept, it's just a matter of the PSO2 teams execution of it, which leaves a bit to be desired. If it was just "shitty designed" game play mechanics, you wouldn't have folks enjoying it, like I do. Obviously some enjoy it, therefore it's it's not shittily designed, they just have to work on the skill tree.
The execution is exactly the shitty design. Concept is great, they could make your T-attack and element of your weapon amp your damage up to do decent damage but the skill tree is so messed up and the numbers and multipliers are so bad that I would call it shit design and execution. The main problem with pso2's team is 90% execution 10% design their skill trees bloat and questionable placing of skills and some of the number is shit design.
Lots of things are great in concept but when you put in humans and execution you see great concepts can quickly be realized in terrible ways.
Looking at the concept you would think techer could take some pointers from dfo's battlemage and put a phantasy star theme on it but alas they did not.
Me I'd take the wand gear and put into two different uses: Increased strike damage with element and your t-attack scaling your attack or a caster approach where with the gear you get reduced pp uses and instant skills that will deplete the gear in increments where you would have to build it again. That would be a start on techers
It's a matter of degree, here. Honestly, it's totally fine as it is strictly between the tech classes because Fo/Fi is not disgustingly stronger than Fo/Te. Using Fo/Fi as the base, Fo/Br is stronger for Fire/Ice/Lightning, and Fo/Te is stronger for Wind/Light/Dark (though to a lesser degree). But Fo/Te makes up for it with boosted PP regen and Territory Burst.
The problem here is Fo/Te's damage with Fire/Ice/Lightning is shit compared to anything outside of the tech bubble. It could have infinite PP and still be vastly outperformed by other classes in almost every case. And yeah, probably even Nafoie spam.
Another problem is Techer alone is a terrible casting class. Zero PP regen while casting, charged or uncharged, and no general tech damage skills whatsoever. It really needs a way to make use of its own PP skills without relying on Force, and anything at all that boosts all tech damage.
If Fo/Te could be closer to Fo/Fi both with Fire/Ice/Lightning and closer to Fo/Br's damage but with Wind/Light/Dark instead, but not exceed (like 20% weaker), and also work as a pure caster as Te/Fi and Te/Br without heavy PP issues, while at the same time improving tech damage to compete with other classes, we'd see a lot better balance.
As in, Fo/Fi, and Te/Fi would be the best at ignoring elemental weakness, Fo/Te and Te/Fo will be slightly worse without matching but slightly better with it, while Fo/Br and Te/Br would be the worst with the wrong element but the best with the right one. All within 10-20% of each other, so you could reasonably casual it up without falling far behind as anything but Braver sub.
Uncharged techs should have been buffed innately or on the skill tree, not be tied to a single rare weapon that can't be easily equipped by every class/race combination that would want to use it. Normal Tech Advance is still only +10% damage, after all.Instead, I'm going to point out that latents have the potential (no pun intended) to really help with balancing out class divides. Give a TMG high T-ATK, Force and/or Techer equippable, and a latent that buffs a particular element, or techs in general, and Fo/Gu and Te/Gu become much more viable than before, regardless of skill tree. Uncharged techs sucked before Elysion's buff and more uncharged techs were made viable to use, but it would be more practical for players if more weapons had Innocent Appearance. The problem with latents isn't the fact that they're tied to particular weapons, as that could be rectified by making the latent more common. The problem with latents isn't grinding, as grinding could be made easier, and/or changes to unlocking them could be made so that grind level isn't reset.
The problem with latents as a balancing act is that they get outdated. When the next set of weapons come out with much higher T-Atk, suddenly Elysion's tradeoff isn't strictly better even within its own niche. Until Elysion mkII comes out, that is.
You're stuck waiting for a specific set of gear to validate your class role's entire existence. And then you'd better make the most of it while you still can before everything else that isn't so gear reliant completely outpaces you.
We shouldn't be seeing 2x damage latents. It's absurd. Uncharged builds should be viable right from the start, with Innocent Appearance simply improving it.
Imagine if Fury Stance stayed the same old +150 S-Atk but there was a 10* sword (Fighter equippable!) with Enraged Stance +100% at lv3?
PSO2 Trivia:
Crits are bad, m'kay? Buffs/Heals ignore equipment
20 Atk ≃ 1% damage Mass WB = Instant Win
Skill Tree Priority Charts || Class Info and Build Guide
Ok, and Techtor isn't exactly special in this regard. We have a thread discussing all the different things we'd do to the skill trees that we mostly regard as being at fault for the current wayward balance, so given that we place a lot of blame over the awkward class execution based on the dorky and in a lot of cases incoherent skill trees, it seems just a bit redundant to bother saying Techtor alone is shitty based on their skill trees.
With your logic, it's like going in to the skill tree thread and saying "the skill trees are shitty!", and then providing no real solution to pair along with the statement. Well yeah, we know that. That's why the thread exists. To talk about it.
Uh, what?
Because some players are idiots, it excuses Sega also being idiots?
People like to tank, support, and use a gunslash or bow as their one and only weapon. None of that is well designed despite their delusions.
It's not so much that Techer's tree is bad. It's severely lacking functionality on a base level. It took them months to add just one skill that boosts melee damage. And then, after lots of complaining, caved in to player demands and gave them one more on a cooldown.
PSO2 Trivia:
Crits are bad, m'kay? Buffs/Heals ignore equipment
20 Atk ≃ 1% damage Mass WB = Instant Win
Skill Tree Priority Charts || Class Info and Build Guide
I'm not sure how we're in disagreement. I explicitly stated that the skill tree needs work, as do the the skill trees of most of the other classes (all?).
I don't see how I made an excuse for SEGA in the slightest. I think there's a conceptual difference between how close something is to its intended design, and how well you believe something is designed to cope with the current game mechanics.
Being a tank Hunter, or a melee Techtor has fundamental benefits to that of the player playing, it's fun for them and it's likely that its fun in ways that SEGA intended for it to be fun.
The problem is that they aren't as effective as other methods in the current game balance in coping with the enemies and missions we consider "endgame".
With this logic, I'm also of the opinion that tank hunters aren't shittily designed either. It's the game mechanics and enemies that are.
I agree. It's pretty obvious that hunter got so many hyper armor PAs so they can facetank things, but the lack of hard to avoid weak damage, and the fact that guard stance only protects you from S-atk damage, makes it more ideal to just get better at dodging/blocking than using overend on hunars face.
EDIT: Which brings up an important point. With GMs, Megaverse, Automate, and/or messiah time, Gunner can do it without sacrificing as much damage. So the problem obviously isn't with the strategy, but with how hunter's skill tree requires so much investment for damage, while gunner is lolsroll.
MOAR EDIT: CHECK OUT THESE SUPER KRAZY KOOL TANK BUILDS FOR HU/FIGUTE!
Last edited by Kondibon; Apr 6, 2014 at 09:02 AM.
I personally want to see TE get it's tech power buffed to the point where /FI and /BR are basically not needed for best tech output for FO. Perhaps they can add "Element Weak Hit Charge" (Elysion doesn't need this boost imo) as a skill with 30-40% dmg boost. As Wind, Light, and Dark tech power are tied to Techer, they need to have a good multiplier if they don't want to possibly say get outclassed by mono element spam from the above two class comboes (I think with Ilbarta, FO/BR might already do so in a few cases). And I honestly do not think using the "incorrect" element should be killing faster than the correct (although certain techs could use better functionality). Not to mention that leveling /FI and /BR on a tech dedicated character is very annoying to do (granted, the new exp curve makes this easier, but still). However, I do think FO/FI and FO/BR could use a damage boost for the sub's weapons. For example, the Tech Charge and JA skills can possibly be changed to include PA damage. A reworked Photon Flare that boosts all damage would help too. This way they're actual hybrid builds instead of simply being used for the stances (although FO/BR already does a decent job at being a "hybrid" via Banish Arrow).
Also, I think that SEGA should nix Light Mastery from the TE tree, and just somehow make everything Darker related (includes Funji/Baize/Clones/PreEp2 Rare Darkers) extra weak to light techniques (not extra weak to light weapon element, though said things need a light weakness anyway). And then have whatever elemental mastery the user has maxed on the skill tree(s) being used to get the planetary natives (and as another way of attacking Darkers).
TE could also do with actual wand PAs, as well as better melee multipliers for subclass weapons. This is were I think the HU/FI/BR subbing thing would be more suitable for. Having Wand Gear trigger PP Charge Revival kicking in with faster recovery rates for each level (with Lv3 Gear being faster than FO's PPCR) could make Wands do better with techs as well.
Last edited by D-Inferno; Apr 6, 2014 at 01:15 PM.
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