Critical worth to get now ?

[hoangsea]

the mechanic still the same but many skill which gives flat crit rate are avalable such as

gu/hu
zero range critical + fury critical = 70% crit rate at close range

fi/te
critical strike + brave critical + shiftta critical = 50% crit rate
critical strike + wise critical + shiftta critical = 55% crit rate

that 's just the flat from skill
there are still more crit rate that i don't know how to calculate from base (or adding from MAG) DEX yet

[Silver Crow]

Ignore crit there is always something better to take.

Edit: I've made a detailed response below with the exact maths, turns out Fighters Critical Mastery and Gunners Zero Range critical are actually worth it. Everything else is still bad though.

::Summary:: (minimum damage increase)
Fighters Crit Mastery: 1% per point (excellent)
Gunners Zero Range crit: 1% per point (excellent)
Wise Stance Crit: 0.25% per point (abysmal)
Brave/Fury/Average/Weak Critical: 0.2% (disgusting)
Shifta Critical: 0.1667% per point (avoid like the plague)

With Fighter Skill:
Wise Stance Critical: 0.625% per point (significant increase, puts it on par with Fury Up 2 [15points for 10% damage]
Brave/Fury/Average/Weak: 0.5% per point (bad/meh)
Shifta Critical: 0.4167% (still eww)

[final_attack]

I dunno about FiTe ..... But for GuHu, it'll depends on your equipment too, I guess.

Using crafted tmg (should the rng hates you the most, and made you doesn't have *10 or *11), will make use of critical build to it's fullest at melee range.

If you're using rare weapon (non-crafted), it'll be less useful. Though personally, I found critical build fun ...... that amount of blue numbers The damage difference is kinda minimal, too, unless you're aiming for maximum damage available ......

Be warned though, ZRC only take effect at melee range, so, for high-speed bosses that run around a lot, it won't help much.

From what I've tried (using ShowTime + HighTime buff, headshot on Fang, and full gear point-blank Messiah Time),
ZRC dealt 9439 (can be lower) - 9770 -> Mostly 9770 due to point-black range
R-Atk dealt 9713 (Can be lower) - 9975.

[XrosBlader821]

Outside of Fighter Crits are pretty much useless.
Crafted Equipment is also meh since the recipes get weaker, there is less recipes for higher * weapons and hidden bonuses will get overwritten.

[btw-Niji]

Ignore crit there is always something better to take.

Thread should have ended here.

[Vetur]

Yeah, considering you could be spending SP on things that boost your overall damage or have utility, I wouldn't spend on crits, especially with how low they increase it.

Maybe as a "for fun" character, or if you have money for extra skill trees and wanna experiment.

[Stormwalker]

I can see some value in taking some crit on a FI/HU if you aren't interested in Chase Advance. It only costs 5 SP to finish maxing out Fury Crit in your HU tree since you'll already have 5 points of it (assuming you have a dedicated subclass-only tree as I do), and if you're not interested in Chase it's not hard to put 5 points in Critical Strike for the damage bonus.

That's about the only use I see for it, and I wouldn't invest any deeper in it than that.

[Silver Crow]

The Fighters skill and Gunners is definitely worth the points, I'll leave the maths below explaining why.

Credits to Outer Haven: http://ohpso2.wikia.com/wiki/Damage_Formula

With a Ten star+ weapon 25% of it's attack is added as dexterity (hidden statistic). The reason why everyone is so scared to give a solid figure is because they try to take into account Dex, when they simply should assume damage variance is 90% (the minimum variance) when calculating crit, since then it tells you the MINIMUM damage you will get from increasing crit percentage. Underestimating is more accurate.

So critting 100% of the time is a pathetic 10% damage increase. Investing 10 points into Fury Critical for example gives you 20% increased chance to crit. Which means a 2% damage increase (that's 0.2% per point, or 5 points for 1% damage to put it in perspective).

Okay so now let's add Fighters Critical Strike mastery to the mix. At 5 point you get a 15+10% damage increase (taking into account minimum variance) if you was to crit 100% of the time. So for Fury Critical again, that's a 5% damage increase for 10 point which means 0.5% per point. Not as horrendous, still really bad.

Now let's see how much damage Critical Strike mastery provides on it's own: 20% crit (+5% passive) * 1.25 = 5% damage increase, that's 1% per point making it definitely worth while without even having to bother with further crit. But let's say you also maxed Fury Critical, that's a 3% damage increase it would have never had.

So the Crit mastery gives you a MINIMUM of 1% damage per point, and the potential to get higher when you max Fury Critical on Hu side.

As for Gunners skill, it's also worth it point for point it gives a minimum of 2% damage increase for the first point, then 1% per point to a maximum of 5% increase.

Conclusion, the only Crit skills worth the points are Fighters Crit Mastery and Gunners Zero Range Crit

P.S. these are all absolute MINIMUM damage increases, against bosses (they have higher dex) crit will actually scale upwards providing you with up to a 50% increase to the values I stated. All the more reason to get the Fighter and Gunner skill

edit: turns out rare weapons set variance to 90%, meaning everything I said was minimum is actually maximum damage according to gigawuts reference to Sakai stating that and in game testing. ugh crit is horrible still I guess

[gigawuts]

The Fighters skill and Gunners is definitely worth the points, I'll leave the maths below explaining why.

Credits to Outer Haven: http://ohpso2.wikia.com/wiki/Damage_Formula

With a Ten star+ weapon 25% of it's attack is added as dexterity (hidden statistic). The reason why everyone is so scared to give a solid figure is because they try to take into account Dex, when they simply should assume damage variance is 90% (the minimum variance) when calculating crit, since then it tells you the MINIMUM damage you will get from increasing crit percentage. Underestimating is more accurate.

So critting 100% of the time is a pathetic 10% damage increase. Investing 10 points into Fury Critical for example gives you 20% increased chance to crit. Which means a 2% damage increase (that's 0.2% per point, or 5 points for 1% damage to put it in perspective).

Okay so now let's add Fighters Critical Strike mastery to the mix. At 5 point you get a 25% damage increase (taking into account minimum variance) if you was to crit 100% of the time. So for Fury Critical again, that's a 5% damage increase for 10 point which means 0.5% per point. Not as horrendous, still really bad.

Now let's see how much damage Critical Strike mastery provides on it's own: 20% crit (+5% passive) * 25% = 5% damage increase, that's 1% per point making it definitely worth while without even having to bother with further crit. But let's say you also maxed Fury Critical, that's a 3% damage increase it would have never had.

So the Crit mastery gives you a MINIMUM of 1% damage per point, and the potential to get higher when you max Fury Critical on Hu side.

As for Gunners skill, it's also worth it point for point it gives a minimum of 2% damage increase for the first point, then 1% per point to a maximum of 5% increase.

Conclusion, the only Crit skills worth the points are Fighters Crit Mastery and Gunners Zero Range Crit

P.S. these are all absolute MINIMUM damage increases, against bosses (they have higher dex) crit will actually scale upwards providing you with up to a 50% increase to the values I stated. All the more reason to get the Fighter and Gunner skill

This is wrong. All of this is wrong.

It has been known for a while now that rare weapons do not give a dex bonus. They give a static minimum damage value. A rare weapon ignores dexterity completely, and instead sets minimum damage at 90% of its own atk values. That is, same as maximum minus 10% of its own atk. This is confirmed by Sakai on his blog some time ago, and observed as correct with ingame testing. (edit: This is obviously removed when you craft the weapon)

Due to weapons making up roughly half of a player's atk stats that is frequently estimated as 95%. As our weapons become stronger and the cap is slowly raised this becomes less accurate, but a more accurate figure would only be off by a few percent so that's still typically accepted as true enough to work with.

Because of this their damage variance is exceptionally small regardless of your or the enemy's dexterity, making crits mediocre at best. I've already done the work on the utility of Critical Strike and compared it against a common build:

Numbers with a few basic builds:

Builds (5 fighter sp reserved for Critical Strike):
Crit Strike & HU Mult Skills: http://ryuhiroshi.funpic.de/pso2/ski...000000Ib000008
Crit Strike & HU Fury Crit: http://ryuhiroshi.funpic.de/pso2/ski...000000Ib000008
CS, HU Mult, Chase: http://ryuhiroshi.funpic.de/pso2/ski...000000Ib000008

So yeah, don't go all in with crits until that critical damage bonus is more than 1.15x. The Crit Strike HU Mult and Crit Strike HU Fury Crit build damage won't break even until Critical Strike's bonus is 1.4x, which is actually one of the first numbers I spat out as saying they should have used. They never will of course, but hey.

As you can see, it does indeed raise your damage - but so does SATK Up. This skill is only viable as a result of having no better alternatives for bossing. We're talking about a class with so few decent options that +200 static satk when below 50% PP is considered good. Any time Chase is in effect it wipes the floor with Critical Strike with a mere 5 sp investment. Take that to 10 sp and guffaw heartily.

For christ's sake, Critical Strike is such a weak skill that investing into Fury Critical 6->10, which is 5 SP for +13% critrate (which is actually .6/.47=28% more crits), at the expense of 1% damage skills totaling 5% damage to everything is actually worse.

Oh, and Critical Strike gives a 15% damage bonus, not a 25% damage bonus. Also, crit rate increases are additive.

[Silver Crow]

This is wrong. All of this is wrong.

It has been known for a while now that rare weapons do not give a dex bonus. They give a static minimum damage value. A rare weapon ignores dexterity completely, and instead sets minimum damage at 90% of its own atk values. That is, same as maximum minus 10% of its own atk. This is confirmed by Sakai on his blog some time ago, and observed as correct with ingame testing. (edit: This is obviously removed when you craft the weapon)

Due to weapons making up roughly half of a player's atk stats that is frequently estimated as 95%. As our weapons become stronger and the cap is slowly raised this becomes less accurate, but a more accurate figure would only be off by a few percent so that's still typically accepted as true enough to work with.

Because of this their damage variance is exceptionally small regardless of your or the enemy's dexterity, making crits mediocre at best. I've already done the work on the utility of Critical Strike and compared it against a common build:


As you can see, it does indeed raise your damage - but so does SATK Up. This skill is only viable as a result of having no better alternatives for bossing. We're talking about a class with so few decent options that +200 static satk when below 50% PP is considered good. Any time Chase is in effect it wipes the floor with Critical Strike with a mere 5 sp investment. Take that to 10 sp and guffaw heartily.

For christ's sake, Critical Strike is such a weak skill that investing into Fury Critical 6->10, which is 5 SP for +13% critrate (which is actually .6/.47=28% more crits), at the expense of 1% damage skills totaling 5% damage to everything is actually worse.

Oh, and Critical Strike gives a 15% damage bonus, not a 25% damage bonus. Also, crit rate increases are additive.

Yes, I added them together >.<

15% yes but like I said I included minimum damage variance to it which means overall you get 25% more damage when you crit compared to your minimum value. Argh I have exams soon I wish I didn't write this, I'm more in the mood of playing now.

I'd appreciate you not calling it wrong like that, all my info was based on Outer Havens wiki post. Plus they stated the cap was 90%, if someone finds new information that it's not the case then it would throw everything into a muddle again.

ionno then *shrugs*