Bouncer Class Discussion

[Zephyrion]

I personally prefer automate over IW + NGU, mainly because Automate, aside from these rare ocurrences where it doesn't heal enough to go back above 50% (situations that you should be reconizing and avoiding most of the time anyway) is incredibly reliable. Iron Will is just throwing a dice and hoping that dice likes you enough to give you a freebie. Sure it's a lovely dice fo FI on LB, but I'd rather be nearly unkillable with automate to avoid the death issue altogether. as BO. Well it's just a matter of taste.

About shifta PP air attack boost and deband PP restorate, don't forget adrenaline ring exists. this one is a godsend for DBs (Jet boots gives you buffs relatively naturally so Tech arts PP save is a better choice here). even your own buffs with shitty duration get considerably extended.

Oh ok, from your two statements I thought you were vouching for resta over megiverse., but you're saying short casts using the ring. I guess that's good upkeep, but wouldn't the time to cast each be the same? I do see automate being the big winner though.

How much pp is acceptable as a Bo/Hu?

depends on your weapon of choice. DBs are reaaally easy on the PP so anything above 160 is already enough. Boots are pretty straining in that regard though, so having something like 180 is more comfortable.

[Ryuhou]

You lose DPS whenever you stop to cast, regardless of whether it's a full charge or not. I'd personally rather beat the crap out of whatever it is I need to kill rather than taking a second to stop and throw Megiverse before continuing to beat the crap out of whatever it is I need to kill.

But it's used to heal. So the options are either using some means of healing (Dephinix preferring Megiverse) or dying the next time you get hit. And then you lose a lot more damage waiting for the revive. Or potentially fail the quest.

As for resta, my resta is usually 150+, with the two ticks I get uncharged that's the same as monomate and a lot faster and does not require me to attack something.
Especially in situations like Deus when you take damage and have nothing to attack so Megiverse is no use.
The point is mainly in Resta vs Automate that Automate is about quick and easy healing and resta is much quicker and easier than using mates manually. It certainly is worth needing a little more time on healing to free up 10 skill points.

I personally prefer automate over IW + NGU, mainly because Automate, aside from these rare ocurrences where it doesn't heal enough to go back above 50% (situations that you should be reconizing and avoiding most of the time anyway) is incredibly reliable. Iron Will is just throwing a dice and hoping that dice likes you enough to give you a freebie.

Except that the freebie is a high chance to not die which is actually really OP. In most other online rpgs this is a rare thing to even hit 30% and is endgame only, in PSO2 it's readily available starting very early and an epic 75%. It's like throwing dice while cheating.

[Zephyrion]

Except that the freebie is a high chance to not die which is actually really OP. In most other online rpgs this is a rare thing to even hit 30% and is endgame only, in PSO2 it's readily available starting very early and an epic 75%. It's like throwing dice while cheating.

Hey not saying that Iron Will is bad, just I find it rarely useful as Bouncer and that the rare times I actually have chances of dying, I still have to hope that those 25% won't screw me over. Conversely, I find Automate even more of a cheat code, since as long as you don't fudge up badly, you're basically unkillable, which defeats the purpose of having IW. in the first place. Also while DBs can get away with popping an uncharged megiverse and resume your Photon blades shenanigans, Boots really need to save all the PP they can, since vinto rotations are already PP intensive as is.
at the end of the day IW vs Automate is a matter of choice, both are OP in their own respect, I just prefer the latter over the former as far as BO is concerned

[Altiea]

But it's used to heal. So the options are either using some means of healing (Dephinix preferring Megiverse) or dying the next time you get hit. And then you lose a lot more damage waiting for the revive. Or potentially fail the quest.

As for resta, my resta is usually 150+, with the two ticks I get uncharged that's the same as monomate and a lot faster and does not require me to attack something.
Especially in situations like Deus when you take damage and have nothing to attack so Megiverse is no use.
The point is mainly in Resta vs Automate that Automate is about quick and easy healing and resta is much quicker and easier than using mates manually. It certainly is worth needing a little more time on healing to free up 10 skill points.


Except that the freebie is a high chance to not die which is actually really OP. In most other online rpgs this is a rare thing to even hit 30% and is endgame only, in PSO2 it's readily available starting very early and an epic 75%. It's like throwing dice while cheating.

I don't know why I'd be throwing uncharged Restas; Jet Boots is already hurting for PP as is, I don't really need Resta chewing away at reserves I need for Vinto rotations. That is to say, I'd rather be tossing full charge Restas I get with TASC between phases than trying to heal mid-fight and interrupting my flow.

[Ryuhou]

Speed. Far better to use 1 second or less for a decent amount of healing than the 3 or so seconds needed for a mate that can easily get you hit again.
For pp just get a queen vera.

[Altiea]

Speed. Far better to use 1 second or less for a decent amount of healing than the 3 or so seconds needed for a mate that can easily get you hit again.
For pp just get a queen vera.

What? That makes no sense, Automaate is instant. Also, with Mate Lovers and Quick Mate, Monos can far exceed what an uncharged Resta can give you for only half the animation.

Also, I don't know what I'd be doing with a Queen Vera as a melee class. That just sounds like a DPS killer to me.

[Ryuhou]

Wut?
Vera greatly raises dps of course. For all classes, no exception, the only other option is an Orbit weapon for that class or the Orbit gs. It refills pp far faster than every other weapon.

And I wasn't comparing resta with automate, but regular mates. Resta is fast enough so you don't really need automate, freeing 10 valuable SP on the hu tree you can put into maxing IW, flashguard, fury crit, s-atk up, step advance, etc..

[Zephyrion]

Wut?
Vera greatly raises dps of course. For all classes, no exception, the only other option is an Orbit weapon for that class or the Orbit gs. It refills pp far faster than every other weapon.

And I wasn't comparing resta with automate, but regular mates. Resta is fast enough so you don't really need automate, freeing 10 valuable SP on the hu tree you can put into maxing IW, flashguard, fury crit, s-atk up, step advance, etc..

That''s...not true
Vera only increases DPS for weapons that don't have a gear that can decrease for whatever reason. Gear uptime for many weapons mean more DPS, even with the inferior PP recovery
So...TMG, daggers, Boots, Sword, Katana actually lose a lot from Vera switching. DBs don't need Vera because Photon Blades. Knux and DS have enough PP recovery from normals to sustain a fight....which leaves Partizan (WL are too busy exploiting every possible window with holding current to really afford the Vera switches). That's the reason why melee classes much prefer using Orbit to Vera, as whenever you DON'T have something to hit for gear uptime, might as well use that window for PP recovery, and not waste your gear when there is something to attack.

Also your main argument is that Resta is faster than mates, which means it's the better choice, but Automate is faster than Resta, and doesn't even need an animation you can be kicked out of... Which is huge. Also if you're a step jump user, you will always get outside of resta's second tick, for the sake of mobility, and S-ATK BO doesn't heal much already even from two ticks. A Dimate from Automate will always kick your health right back to max while letting you move, attack or dodge without being limited by Resta's range. Incidentally you also save the PP to avoid having to have to switch weapons, which means better gear uptime as I've explained.

i'm repeating myself, but while I respect people not using automate, because FG and IW have their own advantages, Automate also comes with a lot of positive points that shouldn't be overlooked. One will appeal to you more than the other for playstyle/weapon/class reasons, but for any melee class, Automate is never more of a waste of points than IW or FG. They all provide survivability in their own way, so the one you're taking is and remains bound to preference

[ralf542]

Vera greatly raises dps of course. For all classes, no exception.

If that's the case, everyone should use it, but I don't see people using it. Why?

The point is mainly in Resta vs Automate that Automate is about quick and easy healing and resta is much quicker and easier than using mates manually. It certainly is worth needing a little more time on healing to free up 10 skill points.

IW:
Except that the freebie is a high chance to not die which is actually really OP. In most other online rpgs this is a rare thing to even hit 30% and is endgame only, in PSO2 it's readily available starting very early and an epic 75%. It's like throwing dice while cheating.

And I wasn't comparing resta with automate, but regular mates. Resta is fast enough so you don't really need automate, freeing 10 valuable SP on the hu tree you can put into maxing IW, flashguard, fury crit, s-atk up, step advance, etc..

So Automate is bad because you can use resta and 10SP is wasted, but Iron Will is worth 10SP for a 75% chance to survive and it's super OP.

If you have time to use resta, you have time to dodge. Iron Will isn't FFXIV Holmgang. If we like to "waste" 10SP in IW then we could invest 10SP in crit cuz both are RNG, 75% chance to survive with IW vs whatever % chance to crit, but nah crit is bad and IW is OP.

[sakare]

What are the best Bo Unit's atm ? For DB !