Bouncer Class Discussion

[GALEFORCE]

Just so you know, Shifta Air Attack Boost and Deband PP Restorate don't work on other people, according to the JP wiki. The only ways Bouncer helps with support are Heal Share, Critical Field, and Elemental PP Restorate.

.. And buff uptime. You don't have to go out of your way to buff people. It happens as you're attacking. You don't have to go out of your way to cast a zanverse, you get a freebie as you're attacking. Te/Bo throws buffs and support out like candy.

[GALEFORCE]

I was thinking to try a Te/Bo build focused on supporting, now that Shifta and Deband seem worth using.

My Techer build would look like this (there are some spare points left):

Spoiler!

And this would be my Bouncer Tree:

Spoiler!

I was also thinking in keep using Craft Mastery, since I love the idea of make crafted weapons way more viable than before, but since Cirnopedia isn't updated yet, I would like some suggestions about some good 7-9* all class Jet Boosts worth to use (especially for the hidden ability, of course).

Thanks for the suggestions.

If you're going to be using crafted boots, level up your crit skills. Shifta crit and elemental stance crit give you a 45% chance to ignore your damage variance, and that goes up to 75% with critical field up. I personally find it more useful than elemental PP field, but you can also remove points from heal bonus.

I don't really bother with craft mastery though because it's a pretty awful bonus. 10 points for less than 5% damage. It's hardly worth it even if you have a full crafted set.

From the techer tree, remove the extra 5 points from shifta and deband adv base skills. They're totally awful. I calc'd it, and upping it to 10 only gives me 6 extra t-atk. Even distributed to a full 12 man mpa, that's not worth the points. Wind Mastery boosts zanverse damage from moment gale, or you could juse put the points into pp restorate. Max PP convert isn't really necessary. At most you'd want 6. More points you can put into wind or dark mastery.

[Shiyo]

I was thinking to try a Te/Bo build focused on supporting, now that Shifta and Deband seem worth using.

My Techer build would look like this (there are some spare points left):

Spoiler!

And this would be my Bouncer Tree:

Spoiler!

I was also thinking in keep using Craft Mastery, since I love the idea of make crafted weapons way more viable than before, but since Cirnopedia isn't updated yet, I would like some suggestions about some good 7-9* all class Jet Boosts worth to use (especially for the hidden ability, of course).

Thanks for the suggestions.

Literally the only thing a TE/BO gains for support over a TE/BR is crit field(pretty much useless) and pp restore field(not very good). But the problem is, you give up like 50% damage for these two things.

Play TE/BR, TE/BO is completely pointless and provides almost no additional support over TE/BR.

.. And buff uptime. You don't have to go out of your way to buff people. It happens as you're attacking. You don't have to go out of your way to cast a zanverse, you get a freebie as you're attacking. Te/Bo throws buffs and support out like candy.

While doing nearly non-existent damage, yes. Your buffs being slightly easier to keep up don't matter when you're doing such horrible damage. This is an action RPG, you need to be doing as much damage as possible WHILE providing support, not gimping your damage to the point of nothingness just to try to squeeze out 1% more support.

You should have zero problems keeping up THREE MINUTE deband/shifta as a TE main. Zanverse is also extremely easy to keep casting while whacking things with a wand, it's not like you should be spamming that AOE boots PA on everything, anyways. You can easily zanverse in situations it's good in with TE/BR.

Please stop trying to play TE/BO, it's bad.

If you want to use jet boots, play BO/HU or BO/FI. If you want to give amazing buffs, play TE/BR.

[TaigaUC]

Just so you know, Shifta Air Attack Boost and Deband PP Restorate don't work on other people, according to the JP wiki. The only ways Bouncer helps with support are Heal Share, Critical Field, and Elemental PP Restorate.

Figures. I suspected as much.

Please stop trying to play TE/BO, it's bad.

I did some testing earlier. Bo/Hu and Bo/Fi Jet Boots numbers are way higher than Te/Bo.
Would be nice if Wand Stance was a general melee stance instead of being tied to Wands.

[Shiyo]

It would also be nice if BO's tree had more multipliers so we could play TE/BO and BO/TE. The devs said TE would be the best sub for BO, but it never is. I also really, really, REALLY wanted to be mega support TE/BO but it's far too weak ; ;

Stupid badly designed % DMG modifier's only things that matter skill trees. Oh well, maybe stances will be removed by EP5 and trees will simply be unique actives and abilities and very little % dmg modifiers.

[GALEFORCE]

Figures. I suspected as much.



I did some testing earlier. Bo/Hu and Bo/Fi Jet Boots numbers are way higher than Te/Bo.
Would be nice if Wand Stance was a general melee stance instead of being tied to Wands.

Well, duh. Te/Bo is a support class. Bo/Hu and Bo/Fi are "solo" classes. That's how balance works.


http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm24337313

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewVVFltyDJ4

Te/Bo is complete and utter shit! Use te/br instead.

I also have another one where I managed 1:40 using ramegid to proc poison on Quartz's nose like the te/br did, but I played pretty sloppily. I think I'll be working that into my routine more often though.

[Shiyo]

Well, duh. Te/Bo is a support class. Bo/Hu and Bo/Fi are "solo" classes. That's how balance works.


http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm24337313

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewVVFltyDJ4

Te/Bo is complete and utter shit! Use te/br instead.

I also have another one where I managed 1:40 using ramegid to proc poison on Quartz's nose like the te/br did, but I played pretty sloppily. I think I'll be working that into my routine more often though.

TE/BO isn't support. TE/BO is giving up 50% of your potential damage for 2 completely garbage fields that don't make up for your huge DPS decrease from /BR's multipliers.

TE/BR is support.

Bo/FI and BO/HU aren't "solo" classes, they still give out buffs and fields while dealing damage, except they deal much more damage while providing those same buffs and fields that a worthless BO/TE does.

Please explain how your video makes multipliers and math invalid? Because you can kill bosses quick with vastly inferior multipliers? I guess that's cool, doesn't change the fact you're doing much less damage just because "I WANT TO BE A UNIQUE SNOWFLAKE". You would kill faster with a proper sub, what exactly don't you understand?

(BO)/TE gives what, 20% damage via EHW and 100 more sattk from shifta advance and 15% damage reduction from deband, while /HU gives like 74% from all it's multipliers.
(TE)/BO gives what, 30% damage from elemental stance, PP field(minor) and crit field(worthless), while /BR gives 50% wand damage from attack advance and 25% from average stance, as well as 55% from weak stance when charging techs and using techs the enemy is weak to.

Like, you can see the math in front of you, but sit there in your own little world of denial.

Also this is the Bouncer thread.

[Hero-Break]

I apologize if I sound too forthcoming but did anyone see the questions I posted a few hours ago? (Post #1007)

[GALEFORCE]

I'm using a bouncer weapon, and I'm using the videos to prove the point that te/bo (using JBs) isn't that much worse than te/br, if at all.

Let's also not call te/bo a "snowflake" like ep2's ra/te, ra/fo, hu/te (wandless), etc. It's a perfectly functional class with enough multipliers to get things done. If one enjoys using jetboots to put out about the same amount of damage as a te/br's wand, then what is the problem with that? Same support, same damage, just a different delivery system.

Two quick questions:

Does JB gear increase tech damage?

How does Elemental PP Restorate field work? Does it give an increase to normal attack PP regeneration, or does it give you back PP if you attack with the opposite element?

JB gear does not increase tech damage. The only things bouncer has to increase tech damage are shifta air, elemental stance, and I guess break stance (?), as well as the various critical skills. Techs are more of a situational thing for bouncer gameplay.

If your element matches the enemy's weak element, you gain +x pp per normal hit you perform.

[Shiyo]

Two quick questions:

Does JB gear increase tech damage?

How does Elemental PP Restorate field work? Does it give an increase to normal attack PP regeneration, or does it give you back PP if you attack with the opposite element?

No.

The field works by giving you +3 PP per standard attack if your weapon is hitting an enemy weak to the element your weapon currently is. Like if you're using boots with fire vs a oodan.