Bouncer Class Discussion

[Tunga]

numbers alone make JB look impressive but in actual practice they ARE bad at bossing. Here's a few test i did to show.

Spoiler!

All of these are on Blu ringahda 20 sec kill. Broke rings right after he does his dash and tornado combo. And nuked his core.

1) I used orbit dbs with break SD and used nothing but justice crow to nuke core.
2) Used my ice ares dbs with no PhotonBlast bars, break sd and did Dove>Dove>normal Pblades on core.
3) Orbit ele stance, Dove+PBf.
4) Same as #3 but i got an infected boss and got knocked back twice.(forgot MH)
5) Ares JB with full PB bar, Rapid boost, Ele stance and used Gust+Vinto to nuke core. (lol at gran wave with vinto)

The test was using light ele JB so i didnt have to switch element mid fight. If i had to switch ele after every vinto my dps would die off. Even by gimping dbs they still compete. And when not gimping they destroyed JB like it was nothing.
My ST http://arks-layer.com/skillsim/skill...IkGKeBIb00000f

tl:dr gimped dbs>Jetboots on bosses.

[Selphea]

And that's actually seriously gimping because it doesn't even make use of PBF's range and precision to break the rings in TPS before they spin out

[LonelyGaruga]

Here are the relevant numbers taken straight from the wiki:

Well you just demonstrated you don't know how to use swiki's DPS notations, good job on discrediting your own argument!

btw, Selphea, Fury Combo Up doesn't work with Vinto's shift action.

[Rayden]

numbers alone make JB look impressive but in actual practice they ARE bad at bossing. Here's a few test i did to show.

That "test" doesn't really mean much. Numbers and calculations are meaningful because they're provable. A random run that you did has too many variables, such as your playstyle, how you attacked, your equipment, etc., not to mention that that's a single boss out of the whole game and certain bosses will favor certain weapons. I could also show screenshots of damage numbers from ACT that favor jet boots, but again, it doesn't mean much. Calculations are meaningful.

Well you just demonstrated you don't know how to use swiki's DPS notations, good job on discrediting your own argument!

Well, are you going to explain what's supposedly wrong?

[Selphea]

That "test" doesn't really mean much. Numbers and calculations are meaningful because they're provable. A random run that you did has too many variables, such as your playstyle, how you attacked, your equipment, etc., not to mention that that's a single boss out of the whole game and certain bosses will favor certain weapons. I could also show screenshots of damage numbers from ACT that favor jet boots, but again, it doesn't mean much. Calculations are meaningful.



Well, are you going to explain what's supposedly wrong?

They're different damage types so the DPS there is an approximation. Techs aren't affected by JB Gear or 50% element. Yay more quirks.

Also wtf Segac @ Fury Combo. Tech JA doesn't work either, but normal JA bonuses do. Stance Charges seem to be working though...

DOES THAT MEAN DEX MAG BO/BR IS ACTUALLY A THING?

[Rayden]

I'm aware that techs aren't affected by jet boots gear or 50% element. I never said otherwise.

The bulk of my post was talking about jet boot PAs (not techs) anyway.

[Selphea]

I'm aware that techs aren't affected by jet boots gear or 50% element. I never said otherwise.

The bulk of my post was talking about jet boot PAs (not techs) anyway.

Yea but it means Swiki's 1697 for Ragrants x 2 Vinto shouldn't be taken at face value

[Rayden]

Well, sure. As a rough number, it's similar to what the dual blade DPS values are. Again, the bulk of my post wasn't even talking about techs.

[LonelyGaruga]

Well, are you going to explain what's supposedly wrong?

The numbers don't take into consideration the different skill multipliers, ATK stats, and damage formulas for striking and tech attacks, which I had already explained, but you didn't pay any attention to that I guess.

It also pays zero attention to practicality and PP efficiency, which are other big issues that hamper JBs. Rapid Boost isn't nearly as good as it looks on paper because it burns right through your PP, which dramatically lowers your damage output. In XH, particularly with Magatsu, PP efficiency is pretty damn important. It doesn't help your case that you disregarded Tunga's tests on the basis that they were in-game and claimed that on-paper calculations were more useful when it's the other way around, always.

Most likely, you're just bad at DBs, or you're poorly geared, or something is wrong on your end, rather then on the end of everyone saying that JBs don't surpass DBs in bossing ability even when PBF is down. Not even suggesting majority ruling here, there are some legitimately good players here that contradict what you have to say, and you have nothing to back up your claims besides some on-paper stuff you haven't even gotten right.

[Rayden]

The numbers don't take into consideration the different skill multipliers, ATK stats, and damage formulas for striking and tech attacks, which I had already explained, but you didn't pay any attention to that I guess.

Actually, you never said that. I just went back and looked through the last five pages of this thread, and you said no such thing. This is the first time you've commented on DPS numbers from the JP wiki in this conversation with me.

It seems that you are the one that isn't paying any attention. You aren't even aware of what you've even said yourself. You also clearly didn't read my post, because if you did, you'd see that the bulk of it was talking about melee attacks only, and I specifically went into the damage multipliers for each individual attack.

It also pays zero attention to practicality and PP efficiency, which are other big issues that hamper JBs. Rapid Boost isn't nearly as good as it looks on paper because it burns right through your PP, which dramatically lowers your damage output.

If you'd read my posts, you'd know that I already commented on PP efficiency. Ragrants+Ragrants+Vinto is terrible for PP efficiency and I don't advise using that combination. PP efficiency also isn't even an aspect of "Rapid Boost", it's an aspect of PA combos. Rapid Boost is simply a damage and speed multiplier, and it has nothing whatsoever to do with PP consumption.

It doesn't help your case that you disregarded Tunga's tests on the basis that they were in-game and claimed that on-paper calculations were more useful when it's the other way around, always.

Some random numbers on a screenshot mean nothing. Like I said, I could present similar numbers showing higher DPS numbers for jet boots, and it would mean nothing. A person could play badly with one weapon and well with another, and it would skew the results. At the very least, a video should be recorded to go along with the numbers so that the results can be analyzed by other players.

Most likely, you're just bad at DBs, or you're poorly geared, or something is wrong on your end, rather then on the end of everyone saying that JBs don't surpass DBs in bossing ability even when PBF is down.

Well, I could say the same to you. Most likely, you're just bad at jet boots, or you're poorly geared, or something is wrong on your end. Really proves things and concludes the discussion, doesn't it?

Not even suggesting majority ruling here, there are some legitimately good players here that contradict what you have to say, and you have nothing to back up your claims besides some on-paper stuff you haven't even gotten right.

More like you have nothing to back up your claims. I went to the effort of compiling the calculations and numbers for you because you couldn't be bothered, and you just dismiss it with no real counter-argument. Where are your numbers? Where are your facts?

You're not participating in a discussion or debate, you're not being scientific, you're not presenting any arguments to support what you're saying. Instead, you're just being rude and dismissive. That doesn't help your case one bit, and just makes you look bad. Literally the only constructive thing you've said in this conversation is that Fury Combo doesn't apply to Vinto.