Meteor Cudgel, Elysion nerfs incoming, Custom Technic nerfs clarified

[Z-0]

But I don't disagree. in particular I think the gap between being a moderately geared TE/RA and the max possible potential needs to be closed.

Disagree. There should always be goals to strive for and the ability to get better, rather than complaining you are not at max possible potential because of poor choices in the game, and hoping people actually trying get nerfed, or that one can be closer to it without really trying to making intelligent choices.

Yeah, no.

[Kondibon]

FYI players that have no incentive now wouldn't bother becoming better players no matter what was done with it. Self improvement is something that a player needs to want for themselves, not because a game demands it of them. If the content becomes too difficult for them and requires self improvement, they'll simply whine about how hard it is, like every game that gets labeled "difficult". Only people that want to improve themselves will do so.

The biggest problem here stems from sega not making any of the "difficult" content something people can organize them selves for or that rewards you for playing at least decently. They seemed to try this with AQs but the fact that things like TD and luther are randomly generated on top of being time gated, and requiring a lot of people to do efficiently means you have no choice but to do them with randoms most of the time. I feel like developers of coop online games are becoming afraid of making "exclusive" content, even if it's just to the side and not required for the rest of the game. Or at least the higher ups are.

[LonelyGaruga]

That kind of content wouldn't make people want to get better. Either they'll whine, they'll get people to carry them, or they'll do horribly compared to people that improve themselves just for the sake of being better at the game.

The issue is not the game, it's the people playing it. If a person has no interest in improving now, more difficult content that is readily accessible is not going to do anything for them.

That said, that content is perfect for the people that do strive for self improvement, since it gives them a satisfying goal.

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

Why not keep the current speed of gear generation, but prevent the cyclones themselves from generating gear?

That would hurt every other double saber in the game.

If they limit cyclones to... 2 max, that would only really effect meteor cudgel since that's the only D saber easily capable of producing more than that at once before the old ones expire.

[pkemr4]

the whole elysion nerf is stupid.

[Sp-24]

Disagree. There should always be goals to strive for and the ability to get better, rather than complaining you are not at max possible potential because of poor choices in the game, and hoping people actually trying get nerfed, or that one can be closer to it without really trying to making intelligent choices.

Yeah, no.

But this isn't a puzzle game, where you use your 80 (soon to be 85) SP to connect the skill tree branches into the one and only correct max DPS setup. The entire point is that there is supposed to be customization. Having one cookie cutter build that is automatically better than anything else in the entire game does nothing good, and certainly doesn't make the game any more skill-based or even any deep in the first place.

[LonelyGaruga]

How did you get that out of what Z-0 said?

[Walkure]

Also, anyone know the JP general reactions to Elysion changes?

But this isn't a puzzle game, where you use your 80 (soon to be 85) SP to connect the skill tree branches into the one and only correct max DPS setup. The entire point is that there is supposed to be customization. Having one cookie cutter build that is automatically better than anything else in the entire game does nothing good, and certainly doesn't make the game any more skill-based or even any deep in the first place.

...what

This discussion is around one of the biggest playstyle customizations for tech users eating a nerf and possibly sliding into irrelevance.

[Sp-24]

How did you get that out of what Z-0 said?

Because he disagreed with Kondibon's point that the current state of things is not okay, implicitly saying that it is, in fact, okay?

[Kondibon]

Disagree. There should always be goals to strive for and the ability to get better, rather than complaining you are not at max possible potential because of poor choices in the game, and hoping people actually trying get nerfed, or that one can be closer to it without really trying to making intelligent choices.

Yeah, no.

"Oh no, all my hard work was wasted because some guy is running a slightly less efficient build and not getting his shit pushed in"

If your sole motivation for going all out is just to feel better than people then get over your self. I'm all for hard content, and I'm all for stuff that requires and rewards coordination and understanding of the game. I'm NOT all for gating important things like builds, and gear behind money and RNG walls. I don't want the gap completely gone, I just don't want it to be so dramatic.

Considering how brain dead and straightforward most of the builds are, and the fact that a lot of bad players just ask people for the "best" build anyway though, I don't see what you mean by "intelligent choices". There's also plenty of fully fuctional and completely synergistic builds that aren't usable simply because the role they fill isn't needed for most content, but who's gonna know that without doing a bunch of research, playing it them selves, and/or asking people, who in my experience, can be completely polar in their oppinions on things. Are you telling me that player should be punished for not spending hours doing research on builds and should have to spend real money or wait until sega decides to make one of their ill-informed balance changes to fix it if they make a mistake? Because that's bullshit.

That kind of content wouldn't make people want to get better. Either they'll whine, they'll get people to carry them, or they'll do horribly compared to people that improve themselves just for the sake of being better at the game.

The issue is not the game, it's the people playing it. If a person has no interest in improving now, more difficult content that is readily accessible is not going to do anything for them.

That said, that content is perfect for the people that do strive for self improvement, since it gives them a satisfying goal.

I think you're misunderstanding what I'm saying. I don't care if people want to improve or not. I'm saying there needs to be separated content so the people who don't care to improve won't be a burden to the people who do.

The reason I think the content needs to be accessible isn't because I think casuals would be more likely to do it, but because it would let hardcore players actually organize stuff instead of "oh shit, there's a TD, oh shit 11 of my friends aren't online but I want to do it!". This means they could make content that's specifically catered to them and is built around being difficult and expecting the most of the players rather than an EQ that a bunch of underleveld Te/Ras can do. Then they can keep the other content as it is so casual players have stuff to do. The content needs to be separated though. The EQ system is terrible.

Elysion is neither rare nor expensive. TD and Elder drop it quite frequently. I own three right now, and two match element for easy 50. Elysion hasn't been all that rare for a long time now, there's really no particular reason not to have one if you're consistently running TD and Elder, unless you're particularly unlucky.

EDIT: Forgot to respond to this.

It's rare and expensive in the context of being required for a build. If shops weren't so limited for non-premium players and grinding/affixing wasn't a load of RNG I'd probably agree.