Meteor Cudgel, Elysion nerfs incoming, Custom Technic nerfs clarified

[pkemr4]

feels good buying that lvl 3 3s fire latent rod along time ago when it was cheap

[Kondibon]

Another idea I had was for techs to simply function differently uncharged, or have their secondary effects reduced rather than the damage, like how the only difference between charged and uncharged banishing arrow is the AoE. I mean, a lot of techs like Foie and sazan already do that part, it's just that they have the decreased damage on top. :/

[TaigaUC]

Fo already has a skill for it, it's just nowhere near as potent as it should be.

Yeah, I know. It was at the bottom of the Lightning tree, and completely pointless before Elysion was a thing.

PSO2 has come such a long way!

[Alandsmj]

Goodness. Why so much hatred for fire techs. It's usefulness is somewhat limited to TD1/TD2 with a fully coordinated Fire FO group. In fact Light/Wind/Ice and even Dark are all viable in these two quests and I have to point out that 9000 damage efficient Ilmegid is still doable with average gear, the right skill tree and a TE.

I don't even use fire anymore and put the only set of Fire rod/talis on market because it is NOT THE ONLY LINE OF TECHS THAT MATTERS. In the new map (where most new weapons/units come from) Dark does a much better job and in the next map the enemies will probably be weak to Ice. Ultimate? Fire/Wind/Ice/Lightning probably will be THE element since the tend to release the three "starting area" as a testing ground. And see, fire is only like 1/4 of that.

And even then you have multi3-razan with a power of 900 that cost like 20PP, the efficient Sazan that still does good damage without an EL but with a Wind talis. Concentrated Ragrant hits like a horse and Efficient Grant never misses one weakspot (Unlike Sazan and Razan) and cost far less PP. Vanilla Gigrant actually has a Power of 660 because 550 is for 5 hits while the actual TC has 6hits. And there is Icefang/Effecient Barta, Gibarta, Multi3 Rabarta, and Narta still hits hard with an Ice build.

But do they steal thunder from melee classes? I don't think so. Even in TD1 and TD2 people nowadays kill bosses with a WB in their butt fast enough that I really don't care if it's a melee or ranged as long as they are not stupid. Mobs are just easy enough for most classes with decent gear and the right mind as long as they DON'T LEECH. For the most difficult TD3, it's a collecting and Gundam game. Fire or no fire I don't care. Instead the thing I care most is if there is a RA with 4 WB, and if the group knows when to defend the tower instead of chasing after every boss.

So please stop these nonsense. And play an FO for real for once. If it's possible, I just hope you guys play a non-EL FO before Ilmegid in EP2, where their damage potential is suspected by most of the population.

[Sanguine2009]

Goodness. Why so much hatred for fire techs. It's usefulness is somewhat limited to TD1/TD2 with a fully coordinated Fire FO group. In fact Light/Wind/Ice and even Dark are all viable in these two quests and I have to point out that 9000 damage efficient Ilmegid is still doable with average gear, the right skill tree and a TE.

I don't even use fire anymore and put the only set of Fire rod/talis on market because it is NOT THE ONLY LINE OF TECHS THAT MATTERS. In the new map (where most new weapons/units come from) Dark does a much better job and in the next map the enemies will probably be weak to Ice. Ultimate? Fire/Wind/Ice/Lightning probably will be THE element since the tend to release the three "starting area" as a testing ground. And see, fire is only like 1/4 of that.

And even then you have multi3-razan with a power of 900 that cost like 20PP, the efficient Sazan that still does good damage without an EL but with a Wind talis. Concentrated Ragrant hits like a horse and Efficient Grant never misses one weakspot (Unlike Sazan and Razan) and cost far less PP. Vanilla Gigrant actually has a Power of 660 because 550 is for 5 hits while the actual TC has 6hits. And there is Icefang/Effecient Barta, Gibarta, Multi3 Rabarta, and Narta still hits hard with an Ice build.

But do they steal thunder from melee classes? I don't think so. Even in TD1 and TD2 people nowadays kill bosses with a WB in their butt fast enough that I really don't care if it's a melee or ranged as long as they are not stupid. Mobs are just easy enough for most classes with decent gear and the right mind as long as they DON'T LEECH. For the most difficult TD3, it's a collecting and Gundam game. Fire or no fire I don't care. Instead the thing I care most is if there is a RA with 4 WB, and if the group knows when to defend the tower instead of chasing after every boss.

So please stop these nonsense. And play an FO for real for once. If it's possible, I just hope you guys play a non-EL FO before Ilmegid in EP2, where their damage potential is suspected by most of the population.

the issue is not that fo loses options, they have tons of other things they can replace it with.

the issue is taking away techers best ranged option. its WAND, not a rod. forces should not be able to use it in the first place.

[Alandsmj]

the issue is not that fo loses options, they have tons of other things they can replace it with.

the issue is taking away techers best ranged option. its WAND, not a rod. forces should not be able to use it in the first place.

Even they nerf EL into TE only one can always craft an EL to be usable by FO.
The one solution would be to distribute the potential of EL into the TE tree and make them TE main only. That probably would make hybrid TEs very happy because they can just use every wand like an EL.

[LonelyGaruga]

Because he disagreed with Kondibon's point that the current state of things is not okay, implicitly saying that it is, in fact, okay?

That is not an accurate assessment of how the game is right now though.

"Oh no, all my hard work was wasted because some guy is running a slightly less efficient build and not getting his shit pushed in"

Nobody said that.

If your sole motivation for going all out is just to feel better than people then get over your self.

Nobody said that either. The motivation should be self improvement for the sake of self improvement so you can be better than you were. That's how it is for most people I know that strive to play as well as they can. It isn't a competition, it's how they have fun, by improving and being better players than they used to be.

I'm all for hard content, and I'm all for stuff that requires and rewards coordination and understanding of the game. I'm NOT all for gating important things like builds, and gear behind money and RNG walls. I don't want the gap completely gone, I just don't want it to be so dramatic.

Equipment should always be important to particular builds, so a money and RNG wall is necessary within the game's context. I don't see anything wrong with that, it just means you can't use a particular build until you get past that wall. It's not like there are zero options available for a build at all this way.

Considering how brain dead and straightforward most of the builds are, and the fact that a lot of bad players just ask people for the "best" build anyway though, I don't see what you mean by "intelligent choices".

Not deliberately stupid.

There's also plenty of fully fuctional and completely synergistic builds that aren't usable simply because the role they fill isn't needed for most content, but who's gonna know that without doing a bunch of research, playing it them selves, and/or asking people, who in my experience, can be completely polar in their oppinions on things.

You can just glance at the build thread and figure out most of this stuff yourself and asking a couple questions.

Are you telling me that player should be punished for not spending hours doing research on builds and should have to spend real money or wait until sega decides to make one of their ill-informed balance changes to fix it if they make a mistake? Because that's bullshit.

I think it's perfectly fair if they need to spend hours to figure it out, if they need to spend money because they were hasty on making decisions, and wait on balance changes that they have no way of knowing when or if they will occur.

Just with the guides on the forum, it should be easy to understand what not to do. From there, it's pretty simple. I certainly did not have any trouble figuring out what to do after asking some questions after joining, both here and on PSO2. I'm not sure why other people, who now have access to more information than before, would face difficulties I didn't encounter.

I think you're misunderstanding what I'm saying. I don't care if people want to improve or not. I'm saying there needs to be separated content so the people who don't care to improve won't be a burden to the people who do.

They will always be a burden. They'll pester to be carried through that content when they're ill prepared. They'll whine to Sega and push them to nerf the content to fit their needs. While they won't screw people over simply by existing, they can still be a burden simply by voicing their opinions to Sega.

The reason I think the content needs to be accessible isn't because I think casuals would be more likely to do it, but because it would let hardcore players actually organize stuff instead of "oh shit, there's a TD, oh shit 11 of my friends aren't online but I want to do it!". This means they could make content that's specifically catered to them and is built around being difficult and expecting the most of the players rather than an EQ that a bunch of underleveld Te/Ras can do. Then they can keep the other content as it is so casual players have stuff to do. The content needs to be separated though. The EQ system is terrible.

By accessible, I thought you meant readily available, as in not restricted by time frame, as opposed to player skill. Ah well, my bad.

I don't really get what you're saying. The content can't be separated. Both casuals and ordinary players would have the same level of access to the content, the only difference would be how well they would do it. And the casuals will whine about not being able to complete the quests and pester Sega to nerf it so they can do it. Sega can't cater to players striving to play as well as they can precisely because casuals will also be able to have access to the same content. As long as there is something that they can access, but can't complete, they're going to complain to Sega. And Sega won't have much choice but to nerf it.

It's rare and expensive in the context of being required for a build. If shops weren't so limited for non-premium players and grinding/affixing wasn't a load of RNG I'd probably agree.

I'm not really seeing how this is a problem. It just makes some uncharged techs worth using. This isn't a class defining, can't play at all without this kind of weapon. It's nice to have but it isn't strictly necessary to be usable. If there's a build you want to use and a weapon is strictly necessary for it, that's how it goes. Don't know why you'd do that if premium isn't on the table, though. Building around Elysion with just one skill tree is a really bad idea.

Another idea I had was for techs to simply function differently uncharged, or have their secondary effects reduced rather than the damage, like how the only difference between charged and uncharged banishing arrow is the AoE. I mean, a lot of techs like Foie and sazan already do that part, it's just that they have the decreased damage on top. :/

Foie shoots out a pitiful fireball that barely travels any distance. Do you have something else in mind?

I'm noticing a recurring problem with Innocent Form being attached to Elysion exclusively, and complaints being about that. There is nothing keeping Innocent Form from being attached to something that isn't Elysion, and there are very good odds that Sega will give something besides Elysion that potential. Soon? Probably not. But it's something to keep in mind that, while now, it's just Elysion, that doesn't necessarily have to be true in the future.

Similarly, while Innocent Form is being nerfed now, internal data has indicated that potentials will go up all the way to level 5. Quite frankly, I don't see level 3 being 100% as a good thing for when the additional potential levels get implemented. Again, the nerf doesn't indicate that they will do so soon, but it's good game design to plan for the future, and that's what I think the nerf is for.

Lastly, the nerf for Innocent Form, while hurting Elysion, also makes it less OP if it was, say, on a Rod. If a Rod were to get a 100% increase on uncharged techs on top of having roughly 200 more T-ATK than a Wand normally would, I think a nerf really would be warranted. This makes Innocent Form a more versatile potential, as right now, Elysion's T-ATK is quite mediocre compared to Rods, but still manages to be a highly important weapon simply because of how potent the potential's effect is. With a weaker effect, it can be placed on a stronger weapon with a less overpowering effect, and making it a more common potential won't carry balance risks.

While the nerf to Innocent Form isn't necessarily warranted with how the game is right now, it's important to look at other factors instead of just the immediate ones. While they were probably most important, it's unlikely that the nerf was not done without any forethought involved.

That being said, I am completely with complaints on nerfing Elysion right now, I just think it's important to look at why they might do so. I'm not going to say it was a good decision, that would be lying.

EDIT:

the issue is taking away techers best ranged option. its WAND, not a rod. forces should not be able to use it in the first place.

All the 11*s that Elder dropped when Elysion was implemented were multi-class the same way Elysion is. That isn't a problem. Neither is the nerf. It will not take away much from Techer, just make it less effective.

[SakoHaruo]

Rip Fighter. You won't be missed.

Man, Force users are the biggest crybabies. I remember when Fo was King shit in VHTA and VHAQ people were still complaining. Maybe they were just unaware.

[Sanguine2009]

All the 11*s that Elder dropped when Elysion was implemented were multi-class the same way Elysion is. That isn't a problem. Neither is the nerf. It will not take away much from Techer, just make it less effective.

while that is true, balance wise the more the two classes can be differentiated the better.
as far as whether or not the the nerf takes much away or not, that depends on how much its nerfed. -10% or -20% wont be too big a deal, -50%~ completely guts it. im betting on something more like the latter because sega gonna sega, even with the new guy.

[BIG OLAF]

Still trying super-hard to make people mad, I see.

Anyway, the Meteor Cudgel nerf is fine to me, since there aren't a massive amount of times where smashing the button (I use a controller, so I refrain from saying 'shift spam') and making eleventy billion tornadoes comes in handy. As long as the gear gauge increase itself stays, that's great.