Hu sub vs Fi sub?

[Achelousaurus]

I see a lot of numbers being thrown around but nothing being explained and the game tells me a lot of different things.
And this is about subbing, so no LB available.

First of all, is it proven beyond any reasonable doubt that the dmg boost is calculated step by step, skill by skill as I see people calculate all the time?
I.e.
Brave Stance = 125% damage
Brave Stance + Brave Stance = 150% damage

And we know for sure the game doesn't first add up all damage modifiers and then applies them all together?
I.e.
Brave Stance = 125% damage
Brave Stance + Brave Stance = 145% damage
???

Incidentally the method of calculation doesn't matter for hunter.
And now for the 2nd question, why do people recommend fighter sub so much?
I see a flat 60% dmg boost for hunter, no questions asked other than ja (unless combo doesn't count if you only use step attack > damage).

I see 45-50% for the one stance people claim is all Fighter needs + 10% if your PP are below 50% at time of attack (PP slayer is the only really reliable slayer, everything else puts you at risk).
PP slayer activates roughly half the time so lets say it's 5% extra dmg on avg.
Wise Stance Fi sub has 50-57.5% more or less reliable damage boost.

That is inferior to Hu no matter how you look at it.
Now you can go with Wise Stance and it would be more, but a lot of mobs turn in about 0.2 seconds and it's very hard to get on their back side and hit them with a JA'd Pa (of your choice cause we sure aren't at the tier of damage boost where using a quick and weak PA just to get the conditional dmg boost from Fi stances would deal better damage than using the appropriate PA for this situation).

Nonetheless (and for bosses), Wise Stance would mean + 70-84% extra damage.
Nice, but as it's more conditional and especially Hu weapons have great aoe PAs and for several mobs you cannot guarantee they are all facing away from you unless it's a build specifically for TD.

NOW you can think of adding other slayers or chase but the conditions for these are steep and the reward isn't enough at all.
For chase stun is out of question because it break on first hit and all sword's strongest PAs hit more than once.
That means it's a what, 2%, chance of applying a status effect and then getting a dmg boost.
It's faster to go straight for the kill.
Deadline Slayer is rather unreliable because it's too risky for a measly 7.5% damage boost cause to keep it you mustn't heal, stay the hell away from forces and dodge more carefully, which will take more time and thus is far from worth it.

Now Halfline Slayer is far more reasonable (even if still rather risky) but it's a mere 5% damage boost.
And the question is, why bother when Hu damage boost is unconditional?

[IndigoNovember]

First of all, is it proven beyond any reasonable doubt that the dmg boost is calculated step by step, skill by skill as I see people calculate all the time?
I.e.
Brave Stance = 125% damage
Brave Stance & Brave Stance Up 1 = 150% damage

And we know for sure the game doesn't first add up all damage modifiers and then applies them all together?
I.e.
Brave Stance = 125% damage
Brave Stance & Brave Stance Up 1 = 145% damage

Edited this part to make it more clear. Using the addition sign for the multiplicative operation caused a double take at first glance.

We've known that the modifiers are multiplicative for a long time now. Here's Outer Haven's Damage Formula page: http://ohpso2.wikia.com/wiki/Damage_Formula cause I'm too lazy to find the equivalent page on swiki at the moment.

The few reason I can think of subbing Fighter over Hunter are:

1. Fighter Stances work with T-ATK whereas Fury does not.
2. You like Fighter weapons more than Hunter weapons and have appropriate class usable Fighter weapons.
3. You desperately need the extra 7 S-ATK Fighter can get by getting all S-ATK Ups (Hunter can't get all of its S-ATK Ups without passing up multiplier skills. Fighter has to give up a few points in Wise Stance to get all of its S-ATK Ups, but that's not a huge loss considering how little Wise is used).
4. You don't want to be mainstream and do max damage.

[Selphea]

The multipliers I'd consider to be always-on for Fighter are Brave Stance, TAJA and PP Slayer for a net 1.898x multplier. If you do a fast throwaway or positioning PA followed by a hard-hitting PA, like Heavenly Kite -> Kestrel Rampage or Starling Fall -> Dispersion Shrike or Banishing Arrow -> Last Nemesis then Fighter hits harder.

Afaik apart from EQs, most bosses are soloed so you have a good amount of control over where the boss faces. The EQ bosses like Elder/Loser/Vibrace/Ragne-chan on the other hand have very straightforward positioning.

[IndigoNovember]

Oh, right, forgot about Tech Arts JA Bonus (I don't use it since I'm one of those lazy 1 PAx3 guys most of the time). Yeah, that'd make Fighter stronger than Hunter as a sub.

If we're willing to move away from pure damage, Hunter offers Warcry (no more Decol Malludas rushing to towers) as well as a variety of safety nets and Massive Hunter (great for Ranger).

[UnLucky]

Yes, damage multipliers stack multiplicatively. It's easy enough to check just by toggling your stance(s) and comparing your numbers.

Brave(1.25)*Up(1.2)*Tech Arts(1.15) = 172.5%

Fury(1.2)*Combo(1.1)*Ups(1.05*1.05)*JA(1.1*1.1) = 176.1%

The beauty of Hunter is everything works on the very first JA. You only get 132% for non JAs, but this would typically just be the step attack or an accident. But that's the guaranteed baseline for Striking damage. For Shooting damage, it drops to 161.4% for JA and 121% without.

Fighter does go higher with *Slayer skills, but HP ones aren't worth the SP let alone the effort to make use of them, and PP won't work on your first attack from a full bar (much like TAJA). Incidentally, the static Atk gains work better for Fighter weapons due to lower innate Atk on them, with PP Slayer naturally kicking in on tougher enemies that need the extra damage, but that just further emphasizes maining Fighter for Limit Break and Crit Strike as well.

Also the biggest problem with Fighter is there simply is no baseline. If you're on the wrong side with full HP/PP, you get nothing whatsoever. (And you don't get access to Partisan and Wired Lance)

[Nitro Vordex]

Turkey sub, duh.

[Achelousaurus]

I'll take Meatball sub.
And I will forever curse them for taking it off the menu in Germany.

Anyway, thanks.
IMO Fi doesn't provide enough damage for the conditions cause it's too easy to not fulfill them and you need more time to make sure you do fulfill them, too.

I suppose I'll continue subbing Meatball instead.