Build critique thus far w/ Dilemma...

[Selphea]

Only time I'd concede healing guard being worth... anything meaningful would be if you're attacked so relentlessly while wounded that you can't use a mate, and can only JG. I somehow doubt Ult will change that.

Maintaining Perfect Keeper for GuHu

That's pretty much only for Fi mains.

Damage variance for crafted weapons went down to the point of possibly being totally eliminated using saiki set, which many people have at this point, so crit lost a niche.

Actually Saiki might have been to prepare for XH and Ult. The Dex progression on enemies from level 65 to 70 seems to have been 40, so with a ten level increase, the Dex requirement to reduce variance might go up by more than 40.

But yea crit by itself... lets say in the average situation where a Braver uses a set of Yashas as main weapon:

1. Your SATK is 955.
2. As a rare weapon your minimum SATK is floored to 90% of 955, or 859 rounded down
3. Your average ATK is (955 + 859) / 2 = 907 SATK
4. Every crit means changing 907 average SATK to 955 constant SATK, i.e. gaining 48 SATK per crit on average.
5. With critical skills, you spend 20 SP for a 50% higher chance to gain 48 SATK, or ~2.4% damage at prevailing SATK to % conversion rates.
6. On average, your 20SP gives you 24 SATK or ~1.2% damage. Even SATK Up 1 gives you better returns per SP.

[LonelyGaruga]

Te/Hu with wand lovers active gains the effects of max level step advance from what I've read.

Sadly...this is false information that was spread. It has the same invincibility as any other step action.

Btw, Dual Blade/Jet Boots Step doesn't qualify for Step Advance from Hunter/Fighter/Braver. Apparently it's called a Mirage Step? It only benefits from Bouncer's own Step Advance (and similarly, Bouncer's Step Advance only works for those two weapons, and no other Step action). Didn't mention it so I figure I might as well.

Maintaining Perfect Keeper for GuHu

Actually Saiki might have been to prepare for XH and Ult. The Dex progression from level 65 to 70 seems to have been 40, so with a ten level increase, the Dex requirement might go up by more than 40.

PK is 75% HP now. No need for Healing Guard. Use Guld Milla instead if you have to heal.

DEX progression for every 5 levels is roughly anywhere between 19 and 26, depending on race and classes. The level cap is only going up to 75. Not all units use DEX to equip in the first place anyway. Back when I started, the standard units were Ragne (S-DEF), Vardha (R-DEF), and Snow/Schlacht (T-DEF), and the requirements were so high you literally were unable to equip either of the other two depending on what your primary DEF stat was. In fact, when AQs came, Haze/Agrani/King units required 606 S/R/T-DEF, respectively. That was back when the level cap was like, 55, 60. Something like that.

Then unit equipment requirements were nerfed. Now, at worst, you can count the number of units you cannot equip on one hand. It is extremely unlikely that units from XH and UQs will break the trend.

[Selphea]

DEX progression for every 5 levels is roughly anywhere between 19 and 26, depending on race and classes. The level cap is only going up to 75. Not all units use DEX to equip in the first place anyway. Back when I started, the standard units were Ragne (S-DEF), Vardha (R-DEF), and Snow/Schalt (T-DEF), and the requirements were so high you literally were unable to equip either of the other two depending on what your primary DEF stat was. In fact, when AQs came, Haze/Agrani/King units required 606 S/R/T-DEF, respectively. That was back when the level cap was like, 55, 60. Something like that.

Then unit equipment requirements were nerfed. Now, at worst, you can count the number of units you cannot equip on one hand. It is extremely unlikely that units from XH and UQs will break the trend.

Oops I meant Dex for enemies to reduce variance.

[LonelyGaruga]

Ohhh. That's a different story entirely.

I dunno. Saiki seems more like something that'll be able to compete on its own merits. The 150 HP/25 PP bonuses seem much more useful than the 80 DEX. Though we'll have to wait to see the stats on Zieg's 11*s, Diabo units, and any other surprises that might exist. Those might be better, don't know yet.

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

Sadly...this is false information that was spread. It has the same invincibility as any other step action.

Ah.

Btw, Dual Blade/Jet Boots Step doesn't qualify for Step Advance from Hunter/Fighter/Braver. Apparently it's called a Mirage Step? It only benefits from Bouncer's own Step Advance (and similarly, Bouncer's Step Advance only works for those two weapons, and no other Step action). Didn't mention it so I figure I might as well.

Assumed as much.

PK is 75% HP now. No need for Healing Guard. Use Guld Milla instead if you have to heal.

'Twas a joke.



The dex thing was more about how much the dex from saiki+levels stepped on the other merit of crit; dealing with crafted weapon damage variance.

[Bumblezel]

I made a short writeup as to why healing guard isn't good in my opinion in another thread.



Only time I'd concede healing guard being worth... anything meaningful would be if you're attacked so relentlessly while wounded that you can't use a mate, and can only JG. I somehow doubt even Ult will make that a common thing.

~250 damage is low damage

~50 damage isn't considered damage unless you're taking that every other second.

It heals as much damage as a single tick of standing in lava, and no one pulls out mates because they took one tick of lava damage.



That's pretty much only for Fi mains, and even then pure damage is better.

Damage variance for crafted weapons went down to the point of possibly being totally eliminated using saiki set, which many people have at this point, so crit lost a niche.

There's no justifying giving up % damage increases for crit chance. Hell, your build gave up the most versatile multiplier Hu has being fury combo up, which increases striking, ranged, and tech damage for... crit... just no...



I'll give you that. I like that if that actually works. The one catch is the fact that assuming this does work, it'll only work against enemies with super armor/projectiles. Anything else would be hitstunned by the attack, and unable to trigger JG+healing guard anyway, unless you have your back turned while using ignite parrying as mainclass HU, so you're losing damage anyway... well so much for that gimmick.



You made a BR/HU tree. I commented on your BR/HU tree. The one point in step advance for HU does nothing need to be there when you have 3 in BR tree for snatch step.

Also:

Te/Hu with wand lovers active gains the effects of max level step advance from what I've read.

Gu/Hu uses TMG I-frames the vast majority of the time, and if anything, that's an understatement.

You already know the deal with Br/Hu and getting snatch step.

That's just a few things that defeat the purpose of that one point.

There just has to be something better you can do with a skill point than gain 1/20th of a second on step I-frames assuming you're using a weapon capable of step, and a subclass/mainclass that doesn't already have their own.



Already did. You wasted points. The one good thing you brought up is the possibility of healing guard+ignite parrying. Other than that, the points you wasted resembled a far more niche skill tree that actually isn't as versatile.

You gave up average stance charge damage for crit chance, and talked of using a sword, which is a weapon known for charged PAs, and you still have access to partisans, katanas, and bows known for the same thing. Why?

You gave up fury combo which is pure damage to everything for crit chance. Why?

That point in step advance for Hu is pretty much dead.

There are several point choices in your build that's counterproductive to your 'versatility'.

Garuga pointed out a few other things I didn't mention.

Regarding Step Advance, I can see that the point is wasted when you put it that way. 0.05s doesn't really affect the dash much when our innate is already there. I agree with you now and I appreciate that.

As for Crits, the damage depends on your stuff, if you have a high end rare that fixes your minimal damage, then you don't need it. But if you want your weapon to crit or to be crafted, then crits is more efficient. Those rares are not something everybody need to aim for, but anybody can if he/she wants to.

As for Fury Combo up, I know that the damage increases in continuous JA, and it caps at 10%regardless of how many points you put in. So I am confident with my 2% to reach that cap, but that mainly depends on the other players. You can put 1 pt and rest into S-Atk up if you like for maximum damage, or put all 10% if you can't maintain more than 2 combo easily, lowering the damage aspect a little.

As for Guard Stance and those related, Guard Stance Advance only applies as a main Hunter if you Just Guard during Guard Stance, giving a damage boost if you use it, and if you do not max Guard Stance, then you can't afford to take advantage of that damage and the defense, and it's a waste of points if you keep it off for other skills if you have it (ie. Flash Guard). And for Hunter weapons, Fury Gear Boost is not under this since it's not for Guard Stance, but I doubt it'll affect those weapons much since not all the PAs benefit similarly from the Gears. But anyway I'll discuss about all this some other time since it's not important right now.

And the main point, I'm not talking about all this from a fixed perspective. Casual players should also be considered when picking the skills, weather it's a fun role, being a Tank or Support and so on. When basing off the player community as a whole, it's not a matter of getting the best/highest damage build (though that's one option), but rather picking one that suits one's taste. There are players that would come and go, rather focus on the social aspect of the game. And there are also hardcore gamers that like to put in the best of their effort, and that's fine too.

And regarding my builds, don't worry about it.

In the game, there are many players using a variety of player builds that doesn't necessarily to be purely damage focused and I like it that way, since it shows variety. But why does nearly everybody here opt for pure damage and why does it sounds pretty compulsory?

[Selphea]

As for Crits, the damage depends on your stuff, if you have a high end rare that fixes your minimal damage, then you don't need it. But if you want your weapon to crit or to be crafted, then crits is more efficient. Those rares are not something everybody need to aim for, but anybody can if he/she wants to.

Anything 7* and above that isn't a Red or Blue Weapon automatically has that 90% floor.

TBH if you craft for budget reasons you're better off with Dex Mag and 5 points into Braver Mag than 20 points into crit skills unless you're Fighter main.

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

As for Guard Stance and those related, Guard Stance Advance only applies as a main Hunter if you Just Guard during Guard Stance, giving a damage boost if you use it, and if you do not max Guard Stance, then you can't afford to take advantage of that damage and the defense, and it's a waste of points if you keep it off for other skills if you have it (ie. Flash Guard). And for Hunter weapons, Fury Gear Boost is not under this since it's not for Guard Stance, but I doubt it'll affect those weapons much since not all the PAs benefit similarly from the Gears. But anyway I'll discuss about all this some other time since it's not important right now.

I didn't bring up guard stance advance, nor should we really talk about build theory concerning it until servers come up.

And the main point, I'm not talking about all this from a fixed perspective. Casual players should also be considered when picking the skills, weather it's a fun role, being a Tank or Support and so on. When basing off the player community as a whole, it's not a matter of getting the best/highest damage build (though that's one option), but rather picking one that suits one's taste. There are players that would come and go, rather focus on the social aspect of the game. And there are also hardcore gamers that like to put in the best of their effort, and that's fine too.

And regarding my builds, don't worry about it.

In the game, there are many players using a variety of player builds that doesn't necessarily to be purely damage focused and I like it that way, since it shows variety. But why does nearly everybody here opt for pure damage and why does it sounds pretty compulsory?

I never said you have to do pure damage specs.

You could also drop points from the S atk up skills for more survivability skills like iron will or automate halfline if you want.

I said you need to stop wasting points.

Not going pure damage =/= wasted points.

Doing things like increasing crit chance at the cost of a higher damage ceiling = wasting points.

Anything 7* and above that isn't a Red or Blue Weapon automatically has that 90% floor.

TBH if you craft for budget reasons you're better off with Dex Mag and 5 points into Braver Mag than 20 points into crit skills unless you're Fighter main.

Funny thing about his mag... he took switch strike on his BO tree, and if you have a BR tree that looks like that, chances are you're not using your bow 90% of the time. May as well drop the points from BO, and BR mag, and go heavy S atk, which is more versatile than using that 190 dex mag since that FI tree screams 'Imma main FI eventually'.

Hey look! more wasted points!







In the pursuit of 'versatility', you have a mag that's overall less useful when:

-maining BO (you have switch strike. May as well have more S atk)
-using that BR tree (you're lying if you tell me you use that bow more than 25% of the time with that skill tree)
-for FI
-for HU
-completely worthless for FI/HU combos

and lost 5SP on both BR and BO trees.

The only advantage that dex mag truly offered you is 95 R atk for Ra/Br, and again, I doubt you use that bow consistently outside of that setup from just looking at your skill tree. You're better off buying another mag if you want to be that diverse with the classes you play. There's no getting around that.

And the main point, I'm not talking about all this from a fixed perspective. Casual players should also be considered when picking the skills

Also, I do consider the people you define as 'casuals', since they're less likely to spend as much money on this game (the effort of giving sega your money for the first time is probably what turns many foreign players off of the idea in the first place), much less spending it on fixing their skill trees. It should be far more important they get the most use out of what little freebies SEGA gives.

Build threads exist for 'casuals' as much as the 'hardcore'. Your main point is asinine.

[LonelyGaruga]

As for Crits, the damage depends on your stuff, if you have a high end rare that fixes your minimal damage, then you don't need it. But if you want your weapon to crit or to be crafted, then crits is more efficient. Those rares are not something everybody need to aim for, but anybody can if he/she wants to.

As for Fury Combo up, I know that the damage increases in continuous JA, and it caps at 10%regardless of how many points you put in. So I am confident with my 2% to reach that cap, but that mainly depends on the other players. You can put 1 pt and rest into S-Atk up if you like for maximum damage, or put all 10% if you can't maintain more than 2 combo easily, lowering the damage aspect a little.

And the main point, I'm not talking about all this from a fixed perspective. Casual players should also be considered when picking the skills, weather it's a fun role, being a Tank or Support and so on. When basing off the player community as a whole, it's not a matter of getting the best/highest damage build (though that's one option), but rather picking one that suits one's taste. There are players that would come and go, rather focus on the social aspect of the game. And there are also hardcore gamers that like to put in the best of their effort, and that's fine too.

In the game, there are many players using a variety of player builds that doesn't necessarily to be purely damage focused and I like it that way, since it shows variety. But why does nearly everybody here opt for pure damage and why does it sounds pretty compulsory?

Crits: Never are criticals superior to flat out %. Ever. Not when crafted, not when uncrafted. Do the math.

Fury Combo Up: At 2%, you require 5 JAs in a row to max out the damage bonus. When maxed, you need only 1 JA to max out the damage bonus. How often do you really get 5 JAs in a row? Not on trash mobs. Not on bosses where you Step frequently. That's why maxing it is important. So you don't have to wait until your fifth JA to get the full bonus. It gives you better versatility and options in combat, because your damage doesn't suffer for dodging/blocking/jumping, and you can get better damage off things like Step Attack > PA.

Casual players: Never an excuse for a bad build. Casual players that deliberately handicap themselves by wasting SP are idiots, not casual players. People that prefer to socialize also have no reason to deliberately make a bad build. And if they intend to get by with spending as little money as necessary, it is completely vital to give them the best possible advice because if they ever want to make themselves more efficient players, it's important to avoid every possible hurdle. Like bad builds.

Preference for damage builds: Because they function best. In an action RPG, skill trumps everything, and skill benefits most from having high damage and versatility. Not tankiness, not wasted SP, not mathematically flawed concepts. That being said, tanking is important for abusing super armor, so if you use that regularly, tankiness actually is pretty important, since the more you can tank, the more hits you can get because of it, and the more damage you can deal. Tankiness is only important when it gets you more hits.

For the record, before you say anything about Step, Step Advance = more invincibility = more attacks you can dodge (with easier timing) = more attack opportunities = better damage = damage skill. Not all damage skills directly add to your ability to deal damage. I consider 1 SP in Step Advance mandatory if you have access to it because the invincibility gain is completely worth it.