Regarding XH+ULT and balance. - Update ULT Drop info<Sega being Sega>

[gigawuts]

You're talking about a shift to lower rates, but you neglect that these are the first 13*s we've ever had. There's no precedent for their drop rates; there's nothing to shift from. On the other hand, 11*s, a grade of item which does have a comparable precedent, have been dropping more than they ever have, even within the UQ. By any fair metric, drops have been the easiest they've ever been in this game (not to say that they're good).

And on the matter of conditioning, if that's really their intent, then they're pretty bad at it. As anyone who has used a booster in an UQ should know, it's not uncommon to go its whole duration without finding anything worthwhile. If you want to condition people to use boosters, you would want to make the effect, at least on occasion, noticeable and directly attributable to the booster. That's just operant conditioning 101. (It might be classical, but I can't be arsed to confirm right now.)

I'm giving you some benefit of the doubt here, but I'm really loathe to believe that there's anyone, anywhere, that would seriously resort to buying boosters with AC, nevermind any number worth compromising the game's design over. I don't find your assertion compelling because the means they'd be going about it are just hilariously bad.

Well, I don't really want to just leap to this sort of tactic because I know it's not fair - but really, do you know every single player? Do you know how JP casuals do things? Even EN casuals? We have people in the EN community who say scape dolls would never ever sell, yet they actually do. Some JPs actually do buy scape dolls. Some EN players do too.

I never said they were good at this sort of thing, nor that it's the sole motivation or sole intent - but any results yielded are still results.

Additionally, I don't consider "rarity" to be a factor in how easy it is to actually obtain an item. The fact that the new standard of items players seek are getting rarer is what matters, not the labels assigned to them. They could be labeled anything in the world; that much is completely arbitrary and if anything that's a result of difficulty to obtain, not v.v.

[Xaeris]

Like I said, I'm giving your claim some benefit of the doubt, which is why I didn't throw it out altogether. I may not be in a position to poll every single individual player, but I can make inferences based on rudimentary knowledge of player behavior. One of those inferences tells me that people aren't going to spend real money on a consumable that has a nebulous effect. I mean, to buy a pack of boosters, a player has to decide that 3 hours of boost time is worth almost as much as month of Premium. The scheme you're proposing hinges on the player being irrational and almost comically short sighted. This, combined with the fact that I have literally never met anyone who has bought boosters or dolls, tells me that those who do are a vanishingly small minority and that the burden of proof should be on anyone trying to argue otherwise.

And let me be sure something is clear. It is one thing to implement some features to take advantage of that vanishingly small minority so that they can spend some money of their own accord. Sega is absolutely doing that; AC boosters exist, after all. It's a whole other ball game to say that Sega is deliberately designing their game to convert players that wouldn't normally buy consumables into players that would and wild speculation to boot.

If you don't believe rarity should be a factor in how difficult it is to find an item, you're entitled to that opinion. But Sega disagrees and they have disagreed from day one, long before F2P was even a twinkle in their eyes and long before they had any monetary stake in that opinion. 13*s at release are harder to find than 9*s at release, and I'm A-OK with that.

This is getting a little TL;DR, so let's put a ribbon on this. Look at your claim from my perspective and imagine what you're asking me, and others, to believe. You're asking me to believe that Sega has made deliberate choices in its design of UQs to incentivise the use of boosters. Such choices include:

- Putting all the 12* and 13* items on bosses and rare enemies, making it so that boosters will few few chances to actually do anything.

- Allowing players to purchase a booster that's marginally inferior to the AC version using a currency that they're showered in. And really, this is the big sticking point for me. I literally have over 1000 excubes. I could run 250% all the damn time if I pleased. Sure, not everyone has time to play to gather so many, but then they wouldn't need nearly as many cubes to begin with.

- Putting 10*s in UQs to subsidize those 250s.

- Making it so that the boost granted only has an effect that's observable from a macro perspective and not immediately observable by the player.

- Lowering drop rates (questionable, but I'll let it pass to make my point) to the point that they cause frustration, possibly causing players to quit (which honestly, is a much more plausible outcome than people developing a 10 dollar a day booster habit)

But, you seem to grant that this plan isn't necessarily effective: just extant. Okay, but here's the problem with that. You're offering this scheme as an explanation for the drop rates in Ultimate ("that's the point"), but the details are incongruent with the implementation of that scheme. In short, there absolutely has to be a better explanation than Sega being mustache twirling villains.

[gigawuts]

What? You're reacting like this because I said "that's the point?"

I didn't mean to imply that's the only reason. I even stated otherwise.

Here: That's a point.

And I frankly don't think Sega actually has the knowledge or experience to know what's what regarding boosters, F2P, etc. They're moving in the correct general direction, but many details have room for improvement. No matter how you slice PSO2 that much is going to be a constant. Moreover, I also think that due to Japan's F2P market being what it is, they're free to release things that would flounder in the west. You say these things are a bad idea, and I even agree, but when did a bad idea stop a powerful company from making money because of low or nonexistent competition?

Edit: Also, I meant to add that a lot of your criticism of my claim could be directed at the game at its face value. Half of those gripes, with just a bit of rewording, could apply to skilltrees over the game's lifespan.

[KatsuraJun]

Personally, I think the only reason skill tree reset passes, rare boosts, and cosmo atomizers still exist in the store is because Sega figures that maybe some new player or idiot will buy them so what's the point in taking them out. If they were actually trying to market these things, they're either hilariously uninformed about their game (which, contrary to what most people say, I honestly don't think they are), or just really really REALLY dumb. Like, can't do basic math kind of dumb.

Scape dolls are another story, I figure those are sold primarily when someone's either doing an XQ and dies or ragebuys it when dying repeatedly to the same boss attempting to solo it.

[Xaeris]

Reacting like what? We're talking.

Looking back, you actually said "that's the whole point." So I think I made a sensible inference.

[gigawuts]

Reacting like what? We're talking.

Looking back, you actually said "that's the whole point." So I think I made a sensible inference.

I added onto my post. I'm a chronic post editor.

And, yes, I overuse that phrase (among others). It's not the only point - something I've said again and again.

Items are this rare for a variety of reasons, and selling boosters is just one of them. You could describe it as a side effect if you wanted, however I sincerely doubt it's not considered as a factor when designing content. If you think they don't take something like booster sales into consideration when deciding on item rarity...I'm not sure what to say. They're paid to consider these things. It's literally somebody's job to predict profitability of these things and whether or not players will have the patience to play it. The alternative scenario is that they actually do design all this shit completely blind and with no forethought whatsoever. I doubt you find that more plausible.

[KatsuraJun]

There's also the scenario where they leave it in because there's no reason to take it out. Whatever profit they get from boosters is probably infinitesimally smaller than the amount they make from... just about everything else. Isn't it possible that whatever they make off boosters is just an afterthought to them?

This wouldn't be the first time I've seen a company leave in a feature nobody cares about because "well why bother taking it out?" - the rune combiner in league for example.

Isn't it more likely the items are this rare because that's literally the only reason to run this place?

[EvilMag]

Any money they get off drop boosters and scape dolls is just coffee money at this point. So fuck it leave it in there.

[Kondibon]

Isn't it more likely the items are this rare because that's literally the only reason to run this place?

That's what I said, but no one listens to me.

[KatsuraJun]

I also want to add, that I feel like the drop rate for MEANINGFUL things has actually improved overall as of late.

Back when 10*s were standard, almost every rare drop was trash. Boosters felt useless because things were either too rare to realistically farm for/tied to an EQ like Falz which dropped jack shit too, or worthless.

Now, 10*s drop fairly often, which can be turned into excubes for more rare hunting or converted nearly directly into money. As for the BiS equipment, I don't feel any more likely to get a 11* in the 10* era than I am to get a 13* in the current one. If anything, I feel like I've heard more 13* drops right now than I did 11*s (or god forbid, 12*s) back then.

Wasn't a similar sentiment echoed when TD first came out? "It finally feels like rare boosters DO something." or something along those lines? Even without them, you still get enough 10*s to buy a booster off a single session even with near minimum performance (2 runs or something).

The point I'm trying to make is that the only reason rare boosts are becoming "standard" is because the drop rates have gotten better, not worse, which not only incentivzes people to use them but also makes them widely available.