Regarding XH+ULT and balance. - Update ULT Drop info<Sega being Sega>

[Kondibon]

Personally, I could deal with the crummy drop rates if not for one thing: lack of trading. As it is now, most (nearly all) of the crap that drops in an UQ is going to be straight up useless to me. I may play many classes, but the resources that go into getting a 12* or a 13* up to snuff make it impractical to use one for a class I only occasionally dick around on. So it's somewhat demotivating to know that even if I do get something worth a damn, it won't likely be something that I give a damn about. If it had some purchasing power at least, then it could at least be exciting to know that the whole zone is filled with potential.

You're really bad at quitting, Z-0. (notsrs)

This is something I've thought about as well. The thing is, while there are exceptions, and thingsa player can logically be expected to do on their own own, a big part of the reason extremely rare random drops work in online games is BECAUSE it encourages interplayer trading.

[Xaeris]

It's one thing to say they want us to buy boosters. I can agree with that. It's another thing to say they design their game with pitfalls specifically designed to incentivise buying boosters to overcome them. That's a pretty damning claim.

[gigawuts]

It's one thing to say they want us to buy boosters. I can agree with that. It's another thing to say they design their game with pitfalls specifically designed to incentivise buying boosters to overcome them. That's a pretty damning claim.

I don't see how. Many F2P games are literally designed with this specific intent. It's not a secret.

[Kondibon]

It's not a "conspiracy," it's a tactic. It's also a well known fact that psychology is used in designing free to play games to make the player want to spend more money...it's kind of the point of the model.

I mean... are you trying to say it's a bad thing? Because you could make that argument about any game that isn't 100% free.

That said, I genuinely don't think UQs were designed with this in mind anymore than the rest of the game. Like Shadowth said, if the drop rate is so bad that even WITH boosters you aren't getting anything that's just gonna make people want to buy them LESS.

[Xaeris]

And those games are widely agreed to be terrible for that fact.

Like I said, Sega could be getting away with far worse if that was their intent. As it is, you can get 250% boosters for free (well, for excubes). The ones that can be bought or scratched for are, what, 300%? 250% for free vs. 300% for however much money they cost isn't a setup that would appear in a game that's trying to frustrate you into using the cash shop.

Edit: lol, I decided to go look. It's 800 AC for 3 150% boosters and the one that comes from the scratch is 200%, not 300%. Yeah, that's definitely not an avenue they're pushing.

[Kondibon]

And those games are widely agreed to be terrible for that fact.

Like I said, Sega could be getting away with far worse if that was their intent. As it is, you can get 250% boosters for free (well, for excubes). The ones that can be bought or scratched for are, what, 300%? 250% for free vs. 300% for however much money they cost isn't a setup that would appear in a game that's trying to frustrate you into using the cash shop.

He's going to tell you how fas 250% boosters run out if you use them every run.

[gigawuts]

I think they've been gradually eking it in since launch, getting players adjusted to using them, etc.

Tell me, with a straight face, that if the game launched with the rates we see in ultimate and off of falz everyone would've been happy dandy with them. Nobody would feel like these droprates are a bit excessively low.

They want us used to using boosters so some people start buying boosters when they wouldn't have before. That's why the game has shifted to the kinds of lower rates we have, and why we periodically get free boosters. It's also why triboosters exist - so we can stack boosters even higher.

Comcast is trying to push a switch to a data cap system on landlines and people still think companies don't conspire to strangle their consumers for every dime that they can? I mean come on guys, it's not that far-fetched to say Sega wants to get people used to the idea of using boosters so a portion of the players, however small, starts buying them when they run out of free ones.

It's not a conspiracy, it's just good business.

[Kondibon]

For the record people don't seem to be happy with the drop rates even WITH boosters, which is why I think this is just sega just being incompetent in designing something they want lots of players to do.

[Xaelouse]

I barely see new rockbear compared to diabo and anga. The new rockbear actually drops decent rares and has a valuable soul if the equip has 5 affix (guaranteed stigma on any of your 5-slot stuff). No way to just farm him on demand either, which kinda ruins the experience.

[Xaeris]

They want us used to using boosters so some people start buying boosters when they wouldn't have before. That's why the game has shifted to the kinds of lower rates we have, and why we periodically get free boosters. It's also why triboosters exist - so we can stack boosters even higher.

You're talking about a shift to lower rates, but you neglect that these are the first 13*s we've ever had. There's no precedent for their drop rates; there's nothing to shift from. On the other hand, 11*s, a grade of item which does have a comparable precedent, have been dropping more than they ever have, even within the UQ. By any fair metric, drops have been the easiest they've ever been in this game (not to say that they're good).

And on the matter of conditioning, if that's really their intent, then they're pretty bad at it. As anyone who has used a booster in an UQ should know, it's not uncommon to go its whole duration without finding anything worthwhile. If you want to condition people to use boosters, you would want to make the effect, at least on occasion, noticeable and directly attributable to the booster. That's just operant conditioning 101. (It might be classical, but I can't be arsed to confirm right now.)

I'm giving you some benefit of the doubt here, but I'm really loathe to believe that there's anyone, anywhere, that would seriously resort to buying boosters with AC, nevermind any number worth compromising the game's design over. I don't find your assertion compelling because the means they'd be going about it are just hilariously bad.

Edit: It seems cirno is out of date on its AC shop contents. I logged in just now, and there's a pack of 3 300% boosters for 1k. Still not better than 250% for free as far as cost:benefit goes, but info should be complete.