Force Discussion

[ReverseSeraf]

So I keep hearing that Fo/Br is another way to go than just Fo/Te, but what about Fo/Fi? I can't find any current videos of their gameplay. Of course they have pp problems like Fo/Br, but is the main reason that Fo/Br is used over Fo/Fi because bows against bosses (e.g. banishing arrow + il barta)? Though Fo/Fi would require more strategy and work than mindlessly spamming the same tech over and over again. For example, switching between front and wise stance along with incorporating tech arts JA bonus.

I can see an ice Fo/Fi doing well in UQ switching between ra/gibarta with freeze keep keeping the mobs frozen and chase advance plus dishing out more damage.

As a side note, zondeel+wise stance seems cool with the mobs facing inwards .

If I recall correctly from other people, Fo/Fi can be the strongest Fo class combination out there now that they added T-ATK to the slayer skills and Tech Arts JA, but it's still much more conditional. This is purely off vague memory, since I'm too lazy to do the math now.

Also, Fo/Br is used not only because of access to Banishing Arrow, but because Weak Stance applies to elemental weakpoints as well, so it's much easier to work with than the conditions needed to dish out maximum damage as a Fo/Fi. Also, Fo/Br doesn't spam the same tech over and over again, since their damage comes from matching elements. Of course, some techs shine over others within specific elements, but it's not like LOLILMEGIDMASTERRACE back in the days. So it's not as mindless as you make it out to be.

Zondeel + Wise Stance wouldn't really work the way you think it would, since Fi stances rely on your position relative to the enemies'. If a scenario like how you described did turn up, then the only 2 outcomes would be Wise Stance wouldn't apply at all since you're right in the middle and the mobs are facing you (or at least I think it wouldn't), or it would only apply to half of the enemies if you were even remotely off the middle.

[horseship]

I did some brief testing to compare fo/fi and fo/br damage on Rockbear and found that fo/fi damage indeed comes out on top, at least for the final hit of Ilbarta with TAJA and PP Slayer active. I hit around 400k as fo/fi and only around 350k as fo/br, 72/75/70 fo/fi/br. Banish the last two hits of Ilbarta though and fo/br definitely comes out on top for bossing.

A few things I have to say about fo/fi (specifically ice fo/fi):

The thing I like most about the combo is that you don't really have to follow elemental weaknesses like fo/te or fo/br, because fo/fi has no skills that boost EWH damage. Fo/br requires 3 force trees to be as effective as possible, while a single element fo/fi tree can potentially do well everywhere. Ice is also a very well rounded element with good options for mobbing and bossing, so I'd say ice fo/fi is definitely a viable option for freemium users or users who just don't want to buy extra skill trees. Good luck getting a Nepto Rod as a freemium user though.

Fighter stances really aren't that hard to utilize. Sure they're annoying sometimes, but for the most part you'll just be steamrolling things in brave stance. Tech arts JA is also a nice bonus, but you don't have to utilize it all the time. If you kill things faster by spamming the same tech over and over, it's better to just do that instead of trying to utilize TAJA whenever possible. I find TAJA most useful for getting a little extra damage after casting a support tech rather than actually comboing. Zanverse -> 7th ilbarta and zondeel -> any tech is where TAJA shines the most, but you can use it with megiverse, resta, and shifta too. You don't even have to charge shifta if you're just using it for yourself, since two ticks with adrenaline gives you the full duration of the buff.

As for pp issues, I don't really have them except when I'm fighting bosses with Ilbarta. Running out of pp generally means you're playing inefficiently or you're not dealing enough damage, so try to make the most out of your pp bar and take out a gunslash if you have to.

[ReverseSeraf]

Fo/br requires 3 force trees to be as effective as possible, while a single element fo/fi tree can

I wouldn't say it's a requirement. It's definitely nice, but definitely not a requirement. All your techs get boosted by Weak Stance (assuming you match). Same thing with Brave/Wise (except you don't have to match).

Fo/Te probably is in more need of multiple Fo trees than either Fo/Br or Fo/Fi.

[LonelyGaruga]

I wouldn't say it's a requirement. It's definitely nice, but definitely not a requirement.

Fo/br requires 3 force trees to be as effective as possible, while a single element fo/fi tree can potentially do well everywhere.

In this context, it is a requirement.

[ReverseSeraf]

In this context, it is a requirement.

Even within that context, I disagree. Both Fo/Br and Fo/Fi have the potential to do well everywhere with one skill tree. Just Fo/Fi doesn't face the element-matching restriction.

EDIT:
I guess what I'm saying now is basically what I said before... to rephrase:

Even within that context, I disagree. Both classes can potentially do well everywhere with one skill tree.

If what we're considering to be "as effective as possible" is doing more damage for each respective element, then Fire/Ice/Lightning Fo/Fi is no exception. If you're a Fire Fo/Fi, you'd be doing optimal damage by using fire techs, but that's not necessarily saying your techs of other elements are significantly suffering. The same applies for Fire/Ice/Lightning Fo/Br.

I think differentiating the classes based on that is somewhat misleading, though I can definitely see why such a viewpoint would occur.

[landman]

I've always been a rainbow element FO/TE, but since the tech rebalance I have yet to test all techs again and see if my three of each choice in my weapon palette is enough or if I should have like 3-4 element palettes, now that we can save those it shouldn't be a problem.

I'm still currently using: Gifoie, ilfoie, foie, gibarta, ilbarta, nabarta, sazonde, gizonde, zonde, gigrants, grants, ilgrants, ilmegid, namegid, gimegid, Sazan, zan and ilzan. The extra palette has zondeel and razan as utility techs (I only use razan to turn garongos upside down).

What techs that I'm not using should I check? I recognise some of those I barely use them any-more, instead of foie now I use ilzan in TPS, gimegid I only use it on catedransa or zondeeled groups, and zan.... I use it to cut grass lol

FOrce/TEchter, you know the ones who paper the floor on Ultimate Naberius with 500 HP/DEF because "hail powaaaaa" !

That would be the case if Ult enemies actually dealt a lot more damage than SH ones, but they don't...

[MegiForce]

If I recall correctly from other people, Fo/Fi can be the strongest Fo class combination out there now that they added T-ATK to the slayer skills and Tech Arts JA, but it's still much more conditional. This is purely off vague memory, since I'm too lazy to do the math now.

Also, Fo/Br is used not only because of access to Banishing Arrow, but because Weak Stance applies to elemental weakpoints as well, so it's much easier to work with than the conditions needed to dish out maximum damage as a Fo/Fi. Also, Fo/Br doesn't spam the same tech over and over again, since their damage comes from matching elements. Of course, some techs shine over others within specific elements, but it's not like LOLILMEGIDMASTERRACE back in the days. So it's not as mindless as you make it out to be.

Zondeel + Wise Stance wouldn't really work the way you think it would, since Fi stances rely on your position relative to the enemies'. If a scenario like how you described did turn up, then the only 2 outcomes would be Wise Stance wouldn't apply at all since you're right in the middle and the mobs are facing you (or at least I think it wouldn't), or it would only apply to half of the enemies if you were even remotely off the middle.

Yea, I get that switching elements based on elemental weaknesses is key to Fo/Br, but once you get to the quest you're going for it's possible to stick with the same tech (since all mobs have the same weakness on the map except for darkers). Though you could argue about switching techs based on the range of the monsters, unless you use talis, but that goes with every fo main.

Zondeel + wise stance is definitely situational, but the position I've used it in is when the enemies face me in order to attack. That way, they face the center of the zondeel. I just quickly try to hop out of the vortex of doom and launch a tech before they try to kill me. xD

I agree with horeship on less reliance with elemental weaknesses for Fo/Fi compared to Fo/Br. That's probably their main selling point.

[ReverseSeraf]

Yea, I get that switching elements based on elemental weaknesses is key to Fo/Br, but once you get to the quest you're going for it's possible to stick with the same tech (since all mobs have the same weakness on the map except for darkers). Though you could argue about switching techs based on the range of the monsters, unless you use talis, but that goes with every fo main.

Zondeel + wise stance is definitely situational, but the position I've used it in is when the enemies face me in order to attack. That way, they face the center of the zondeel. I just quickly try to hop out of the vortex of doom and launch a tech before they try to kill me. xD

I agree with horeship on less reliance with elemental weaknesses for Fo/Fi compared to Fo/Br. That's probably their main selling point.

It definitely is Fo/Fi's selling point! I was just correcting your earlier assumption that Fo/Br spam the same tech over and over again. In fact, it's just detrimental.

[Z-0]

No Fo combination is the same tech over and over again, if we're talking about efficiency. No class is. . -. While it may work, it ain't efficient.

[ReverseSeraf]

I'm still currently using: Gifoie, ilfoie, foie, gibarta, ilbarta, nabarta, sazonde, gizonde, zonde, gigrants, grants, ilgrants, ilmegid, namegid, gimegid, Sazan, zan and ilzan. The extra palette has zondeel and razan as utility techs (I only use razan to turn garongos upside down).

What techs that I'm not using should I check? I recognise some of those I barely use them any-more, instead of foie now I use ilzan in TPS, gimegid I only use it on catedransa or zondeeled groups, and zan.... I use it to cut grass lol

I guess I'll list some techs along with the craft you want to look for:

Fire techs: Foie (Blazing or Efficient), Rafoie (Blazing), Nafoie (Blazing or Efficient)

Lightning techs: Razonde (Supercharged), Ilzonde (Concentrated)

Ice techs: I've heard Barta is pretty good now, though I haven't tested myself

Wind techs: Nazan (Windslicer), Zanverse (if you like supporting)

Light techs: Ragrants (Concentrated)

Dark techs: Megid (Umbral) and Ramegid (Umbral) are pretty good.

I'll assume you already have good crafts for the techs you use. Someone's more than welcome to fill this list if I forgot to mention a tech.