Just my thoughts about PSO 2 vs PSO 1

[untrustful]

I too appreciate the minimal reskinned enemies.

[RadiantLegend]

What I really miss the most is the atmosphere. You just don't get the ruins, jungle, seabed ish is about to go down feel.
Darker den with creepy music would be a start.

[LordKaiser]

I strongly disagree with point #4

The current loot system prevents a lot drama and that's a line of interaction that I can be without. There's no more people claiming that someone stole a item from them or that someone in fact just takes something you need unfairly. The pros do outweigh the cons fully.

Also someone posted this here long time ago.

http://forums.sega.com/showthread.ph...-Lame-D-argent

[Flaoc]

I strongly disagree with point #4

The current loot system prevents a lot drama and that's a line of interaction that I can be without. There's no more people claiming that someone stole a item from them or that someone in fact just takes something you need unfairly. The pros do outweigh the cons fully.

Also someone posted this here long time ago.

http://forums.sega.com/showthread.ph...-Lame-D-argent

and this is why i was a solo player on bb.. glad sega got rid of that awful ninja loot system

[Defend]

@Kaiser
I acknowledged and discussed that in the OP.

@Punisher
Well your wrong opinion is wrong. XP Just kidding. Understandable that some prefer those things.

I admire PSO 2's combat. The timing, healing and diving all fit really well. Often gets a bit too showboaty but at least when it does become a fight for survival it easily plays better than any other action RPG I've tried. However, there's "avoiding attacks" and there's "having the option to stay out of danger completely while still in combat". The latter does indeed make it easier to do the former and if you prefer that, all the better for you. In this paragraph I'm just highlighting the difference. And I had never thought of it until PSO 2, but PSO 1 shows a deliberate management of how free the player is to run away (which results in battles that I personally think are better).


@Radiant
Mmm the levels really are different kettles of fish aren't they. I think I see what you mean, but I haven't experienced all of PSO 2's environments yet.

I think Forest (PSO 2) is quite a great stage though; a large part of why I enjoy it is the respect it tips to PSO 1's Forest. I think they got the atmosphere right in that one at least.

@isCasted
Interesting that there is something I can actually drop!

It's a shame things have to come down to one-hit KOs at all. There was one thing that PSO did better than PSO ver 2.0, and it was this. In PSO v1.0, 20-hit KOs were legit. In v2.0, they changed it so that if you could survive one hit you were a god. Actually PSO 2 is much better than PSO 1 ver 2.0 in this regard specifically.

[Chrysheight]

Well like was said, PSO2 is a different game. It's like comparing apples to oranges. I would have liked to see more things improved upon though. I'd really like to see a Max Attack G style quest for PSO2 that brought back classic area designs.

I also miss max starting among other things.

[Triple_S]

1. Not dropping items.

Obviously if we could put items on the ground the game would be better. And obviously that would damage their freemium business model. So the reasons are understandable, but it's still a huge shame that it's gone. It's not the trading aspect that I miss; it's the tangible nature of stuff that it brought to the game. While this list isn't meant to be in any sort of order this would definitely be my number 1 thing that was lost in PSO 2.

Yeah, sucks, but as you said it's necessary due to the business model.

2. Balance in fields

Wow. I'm sure some might say this is subjective, but to me it doesn't feel that way. In balancing the combat and enemies, PSO 1 was done very well. I don't say that in hindsight either; back in the day I would remark on how well PSO 1's basic game plays out from Normal to V Hard.

But PSO 2 just blows my mind. A RA with a launcher just deals so much damage from the first step on Naberius. Right from level 1 the RA can pull off multiple one-hit KOs with a crit, and this just carries on for I don't know how long. Now think of a level 1 HUcast with his strongest attack in PSO 1. The difference is huge, and remember that's the HUcast using melee, single-target combat. In PSO 1, when you get to the point of one-hitting things, you feel good. In PSO 2, that's level 1.

On top of that, your mobility is so high and the fields so large that nothing threatens you at all. It's common to go into a quest or EQ much higher than your character and just never die. Now think of the same thing in PSO 1. Or of getting past the last Hildebears in early forest runs, or trying to deal with the swarms in Ruins. Sinows... remember the Sinows.

Funnily enough, the game was a fair bit more challenging in Beta. Enemies took a decent amount of hits to kill when at-level, but not too much, and being hit hurt and reminded you to always be aware without outright one-shotting you like the game does now in later difficulties. Part of what makes the game easier is the fact that you're far more mobile and there's not some awful dice roll on if the saber that sliced through the enemy actually hit or not. The other part is that in general, so long as you keep up on your gear, you can take some good punishment and dish out far more.

That being said, go back and replay PSO. It's actually not that hard at all once you know the game's mechanics, aside from the accuracy system which is artificial difficulty in an action RPG anyway. For example, you mention later that in PSO2 you can simply run from danger. Well PSO1 is just as bad outside of boss arenas (which PSO2 has as well), because you can just waltz past a door and you completely lose all the aggro on you while the enemies reset to their starting positions. This allowed characters to cheese damn near everything with ranged combat. Plus there's the tactic of using only the first two attacks for most melee weapons and then backing off, because it's often the third attack that has the most lag (only use it when you know it'll kill and something else isn't going to slap you).

3. Balance in bosses

The bosses go completely the other way and arrive as literal HP sinks. As a result, the jump from enemies to bosses is just hard to understand. If I was at a more appropriate strength for the normal enemies, the boss would take even longer. If my strength was more appropriate for the boss, the level itself would just be an even greater number of 1 hit KOs.

Just to clarify, I'm not saying the bosses are too hard. Actually they're not threatening enough. The problem is that they're too slow a battle. If 5 minutes of fighting have passed and neither side is on the brink of death and no players are feeling threatened, things turn dull. The same fight could be had in a less repetitive way. Several times in PSO 2 I've arrived at a boss for the first time, and killed it after a very long period of feeling not much of anything at all. Compare that to the first time you reach the Dragon at level 3 or 4, or De Rol, or basically any boss in PSO 1. If you would need 15 minutes to kill a boss in PSO 1, the fight will definitely be over in less time than that because you'd be dead.

So in short:
PSO 1: If it's hard for you to kill the boss, it's easy for the boss to kill you.
PSO 2: If it's hard for you to kill the boss, it's still hard for the boss to kill you.

This could just be a RA issue in PSO 2. Half of the problem is the freedom to totally run away from danger. Again, something PSO 1 handled well with its arenas.

And perhaps the bosses are simply designed for multiple players to be fighting them, reducing the HP issue at least. But still, no-one's worrying about dying. Moon Atomizers are so rarely necessary that I honestly wonder if people carry them.

[ All these comments about balance are referring to a RAcaseal with nothing special. I'm about to equip the standard gun that my R-ATK will allow, my mag supplies only about 7 R-ATK, and I wear whatever armour looks the coolest because defense seems to not really be a thing. ]

Bosses can dish out some serious damage if you aren't careful. Of course, I could just be undergeared, but in Very Hard my Br/Ra can get one-shot or two-shot very easily. As for their health, you need to make sure you're playing to the strengths of your class. Rangers need to be targeting boss weak points with their attacks, including putting Weak Bullet on them whenever possible. A boss should not take you long unless you're unfamiliar with your class, or you're just underleveled/undergeared. If it's the latter, you are certain to be crushed by any solid hit from the boss.

As for PSO1... bosses could take a very long time and still result in victory if you know what you're doing and came prepared. De Rol Le can be REALLY freaking annoying in this regard. Falz can be like this, but Falz (especially Form 3) LOVES set damage attacks. PSO1 in general loves set damage attacks which is kind of infuriating really. PSO1's bosses end up being harder than the levels due to that, but it depends on how much HP your character has... but in reality the levels end up being worse simply because they have so many enemies that do basically the same amount of damage. Defense is also freaking stupid in PSO1 because having more can get you killed easier. Ultimate mode does not give mercy invulnerability when hit... unless you're knocked down. If a volley of Baranz missiles hit you and don't knock you down, you're fucking dead. Scariest attack in the game really.

4. Detached reality looting.

Similar to number 1 up above, I'm a little saddened to know that we aren't all sharing the same bits of loot all over the ground. Yeah there are arguments that support it, such as focussed attacking and fairer looting, but I think the pros don't outweigh the cons. Basically, it removes a line of interaction between players... less that says we sharing the same world.

Unlike number 1, this could have been applied to PSO 2 without breaking their business model.

Admittedly, when it comes to rares, for most people PSO 1's approach simply will not fly. I totally understand that. If forced to choose between PSO 1 and 2's style, I personally would say 1 all the way. But certainly a hybrid model could have been devised also that maintained the shared world nature of PSO 1, with the fairer rares distribution of PSO 2. That would have been much better, imo.

Y'know, I get what you're saying, but the shared loot systems of old really just don't mesh well unless you can fully trust those you're playing with. Often, you can't. There's really no way to ensure a truly fair system. Let's look at some ideas that were used instead of a pick-up system:

-Random Distribution/Dice Roll? It's two sets of RNG which can be infuriating. The game rolls to see if it even drops, then it rolls to see who even gets it. Technically everyone gets the same shot at the rare that dropped, but then that rich asshole gets all of them, or the player that would never touch Hunter in their life gets an amazing sword and would rather sell it than give it to someone who needs it. Plus I mean, you still get to see the rare be dropped and then proceed to watch as it is ripped away from you, which sucks.

-Set Order Distribution? Easily manipulated, plus can still lead to the situations above.

-Class-Based Distribution? Oh man, you're on your alt and that sword you really need for your main drops! But you don't get it because you're on your alt, and instead that rich asshole who already has a rainbow set of it gets it again and sells it off.

What we have now is essentially a more fair version of Random Distribution. Yes, the rich asshole who already has everything can still be the only one who gets the item, but the fact that they got the item did not affect your chance at getting the item. It was completely unrelated, and you can only curse your own luck. You are aware that you could have also gotten that item, and no one took that chance from you.

5. Party chat in lobbies.

Simply the way the Arks ship is almost always completely silent, a problem PSO 1 didn't have. I am guessing this is because everyone is talking in their party channels. I'd simply prefer it if Party chat was actually disabled on the main ship; which admittedly would mean having to find a way to explain that to the players.

As people have said, it's mostly a culture thing. PSO1 had Team Chat and the Mail system, which were used a lot as well. I do personally miss the hustle and bustle of a populated lobby from PSO1 and PSU, but I wouldn't say it's something objectively better or even that the silence is a problem.

I think there are more things but I'll leave it there for now, for fear that I'll get too detailed and lose track of the aim of this post, which is to only point out the large things I feel PSO 1 definitely and simply did better.

I know it's all subjective, but I do feel that a fair bit of what you prefer from PSO1 is more nostalgia than anything. I love PSO1, and I do feel certain things were handled better in that game, but I can't really say the above things necessarily fit in with that.


EDIT: Oh, right. PSO1 also was absolutely broken because of weapon specials. Hell, Demon's, and the Sacrificials utterly destroyed the game.

[Achelousaurus]

Defend, I have no clue what you are talking about for the most part and I played PSO1 on and off from 2003 to 2014, clocking 12,000+ hours easily.

First off, everyone get their own drops is perfect. Honestly, there is literally no reason why you should want one drop for everyone unless you enjoy grieving and stealing other people's items.
OR you enjoy seeing other fight about this (like when I called MKB if it drops with 55hit twice just for a jerk to steal it from under my nose, a team member, too).

Anyway, in PSO2 bosses can do down in 1 shot. It's even possible to kill XH Magatsu in 1 minute.
If you take forever killing anything, you are slow.
And 5 minutes is honestly a good time for a boss battle, this isn't just some slightly stronger enemy but a boss, how can you ever appreciate a boss and enjoy the boss fight if it's over in 10 seconds or less?

Demon's special and Dark Flow wave don't come even remotely close to the ridiculousness of WB, CT, Ilbarta or Banish Arrow (probably missed a couple of bigass multipliers).
Sure you could kill stuff fast in PSO1 but you can kill a lot faster in PSO2, in PSO1 nothing had as high HP as some SH and especially XH stuff has and this still can go down almost instantly.

Also, wtf are you doing that bosses can't kill you easily?
You sure you are not doing normal mode as lvl 75?
Cause even Rockbear in SH can easily do 1100 damage with one hit if you get grabbed and there is no way out of the grab.

Anyway you are missing the issue except for the last point.
No one using public chat is a horrible, horrible thing. It's boring, you make far fewer friends and it also extends to mpas where communication is frowned upon, my old team considered it a crime to say anything at all in public chat even trying to coordinate the mpa, which means most peopel don't consider coordinating anything and it's a horrid mess.
Incidentally while jp players tend to not say much in public chat in the lobby, they frequently coordinate in an mpa.

And the other problem is this affecting mpa areas. It's not such a bad feature but the effect is the same as in most mmorpgs, drowning in a sea of strangers.
Most people play alongside each other, not with each other.
It's like riding the bus to school, you recognize 20 faces but no one says a single word to each other except for the odd small clique of friends.

Also, fields and quests are far too short. Outside of maybe XQs and AQs everything only takes a few minutes.
Not to mention the game is FAR more reward oriented than PSO1 so you instanttly get into the mentality that there isn't much of a point in doing something unless it gives a good reward.

As a result you can't easily just join someone else's party (most that do don't say a word the whole quest and if then only hello and goodbye for the very minimum of manners).
XQs and AQs require items, XQs can be hard, especially if you mess up a stage you may face 4 rare bosses with a 90% dmg reduction.
SHAQs require 10 caps which cost 70k a pop, so you can't just randomly do them for fun, unless you have a goal you waste them quickly and that's it. And even with an extended PSE burst you may not get 10 caps (last time the pse burst lasted 6 minutes and I found 6 caps).
Also you want a high risk but because it resets after only 1 week and it can be hard to find people to do shaqs with, it's another reason not to do them unless you want something specific (like a disc only dropping there).

And then EQs, which bind you to a retarded schedule for anything really worth doing, where you can also be sure it's not hard to find a party.

In short, unlike in PSO1 where I'd just join some random party and have fun going through forest to falz or get 3 people or play with friends to clear some fun quest, there is little incentive to do it in PSO2.

[LonelyGaruga]

Also, wtf are you doing that bosses can't kill you easily?
You sure you are not doing normal mode as lvl 75?
Cause even Rockbear in SH can easily do 1100 damage with one hit if you get grabbed and there is no way out of the grab.

Rockbear's grab can be escaped. Damage is a bit exaggerated unless it's level 3 infection, typical damage is closer to the 600-700 range. Well, to be honest, I don't actually know, between the fact that it can be escaped and the fact that it's incredibly easy to dodge, I haven't been hit by it since the first day of playing a melee class. But really, that's the point. It doesn't matter how much damage is done if the attacks don't connect, and Rockbear should never land the grab on a player. Most bosses in general have easy to avoid attacks, so they do in fact have a hard time killing players.

I don't really have any interest in adding to the thread about PSO comparisons because I never played PSO and I'm only really lurking out of curiosity, but this is a completely fair criticism about PSO2. It's easy. Really easy.

[Omega-z]

What Triple_S said about the three idea's of loot hybird system is exactly was added in PSU:AotI and still was looked at poorly. When PSO2's Alpha was worked on separated drop system was the very first thing that was asked. So, it was a very big thing for everyone.