12 Class Cubes for 2 SP is too much work for too little reward.

[Maenara]

I guess I have to spell it out. You're comparing one skill with one skill. What you should be doing is comparing a full skill tree with another full skill tree. By itself, Combat Escape is somewhat comparable to Massive Hunter if you just look at what the skills do, but because it's tied to Katana Combat, a damage bonus, Katana Combat Finish, and can be acquired with minimal SP investment, it isn't all that similar to Massive Hunter in practice.

I mean really, it'd be pretty stupid to say "fire techs don't charge faster than other techs if you don't get Flame Tech S Charge" in the context of a fire build, right? How does it make more sense to argue that Combat Escape is functionally similar to Massive Hunter in the context of Br/Hu then?

Yeah, you know, except my original point was clearly "If it's worth spending 5 SP in Combat Escape, it's worth spending 5 SP in Massive Hunter, too."

If you want to argue entire builds, I suppose I should point out that FI/BR with the Evil katana is stronger than anything BR/HU could possibly bring to the table. What strengths does BR/HU bring to the table? It brings survivability. Combat Escape, Massive Hunter, Automate Halfline, Iron Will, Never Give Up. That isn't to say that BR/HU is bad, but its strengths should be utilized if you're going to run with it in the first place.

[LonelyGaruga]

^Combat Escape and Massive Hunter, both are defensive options for BRHU. Both let the user to deal damage almost uninterrupted (almost, because Massive Hunter still has stun to worry about) in 65 seconds (20 from KC, 45 from MH). This also translate to more DPS.

In short: Both skills make BRHU's DPS almost uninterrupted in 65 seconds, especially during bossfight, if used one after another.

What part about blocking that MH requires you not to do in order to benefit from it are people missing? The idea isn't even to use katana at all with MH in the first place. It's for bows.

What strengths does BR/HU bring to the table?

-Better bow usage (Br/Hu is a hybrid, not a katana specialist)
-Better mobbing
-Better subclass weapons
-Massive Hunter for Banish > KA (not Massive Hunter for mobbing, not Massive Hunter for bossing with a katana, Massive Hunter for bow usage)
-Non-conditional damage allowing for more tactical combat (like Hatou from behind Vol Dragon to maximize hits)

etc etc. Don't even need to drag up survival to make a case for Br/Hu.

Oh and FYI Massive Hunter is actually an 11 SP investment and isn't remotely as useful as Combat Escape is, so that comparison is pretty awful. And lol Iron Will being mentioned as a plus for Hunter, who even uses that outside of Fi/Hu builds (and even then I don't like that at all)?

[Maenara]

What part about blocking that MH requires you not to do in order to benefit from it are people missing? The idea isn't even to use katana at all with MH in the first place. It's for bows.



-Better bow usage (Br/Hu is a hybrid, not a katana specialist)
-Better mobbing
-Better subclass weapons
-Massive Hunter for Banish > KA (not Massive Hunter for mobbing, not Massive Hunter for bossing with a katana, Massive Hunter for bow usage)
-Non-conditional damage allowing for more tactical combat (like Hatou from behind Vol Dragon to maximize hits)

etc etc. Don't even need to drag up survival to make a case for Br/Hu.

Oh and FYI Massive Hunter is actually an 11 SP investment and isn't remotely as useful as Combat Escape is, so that comparison is pretty awful. And lol Iron Will being mentioned as a plus for Hunter, who even uses that outside of Fi/Hu builds (and even then I don't like that at all)?

>bringing up bow usage on a BR/HU tree that has literally zero bow skills specced

[LonelyGaruga]

I was never talking about Maninbluejumpsuit's build in the first place in that post. Why would you even bring that build up? His build has even less value for Massive Hunter than a hybrid would.

[KazukiQZ]

^Hybrid? You mean like this?
http://pso2-skill.pwnedgalaxy.net/sk...0jdoIb0000000j

[Z-0]

>bringing up bow usage on a BR/HU tree that has literally zero bow skills specced

Actually, even with zero bow skills specced, Bow is still far better DPS than Katana will ever be for single target. This goes for full S-Atk builds too. Episode 3 Kamikaze with Banish Arrow is too powerful to pass up.

Eh? How come it's entirely luck now? Mind explaning? I'm curious o-o Haven't played any CM since that time I partied up with you due to irl things too >.<

Everyone who is decent at CM now knows how to get max score; getting top on the leaderboards now is just how patient you are to be lucky enough to pick up the VR capsule as Vomos dies.

[Maenara]

I was never talking about Maninbluejumpsuit's build in the first place in that post. Why would you even bring that build up? His build has even less value for Massive Hunter than a hybrid would.

At this point, I'm not even sure you know what you're arguing. Your point has changed like three times, while mine hasn't changed once. It's like you're incapable of backing down in any authentic way.
We were always talking about his tree, and how 44 S-atk was worth less than +4 SP into Massive Hunter. Never once was that not apparent, and yet here you are arguing that Massive Hunter is worse than Combat Escape(A skill bound to S-atk-only weapon) on some theoretical bow-katana hybrid BR/HU tree that was never talked about until it was convenient for you to bring it up.

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

His build has even less value for Massive Hunter than a hybrid would.

Part of the reason I only have one point in it.

Actually, even with zero bow skills specced, Bow is still far better DPS than Katana will ever be for single target. This goes for full S-Atk builds too. Episode 3 Kamikaze with Banish Arrow is too powerful to pass up.

So I've heard. Problem is, my ideal karen is a bit far ahead in damage value (which is why I sold off my glass klien). Once I do have ideal bow eventually maybe, I would consider something like this braver tree.

^Hybrid? You mean like this?
http://pso2-skill.pwnedgalaxy.net/sk...0jdoIb0000000j

Til then, only really using the bow for shit I can't be bothered to chase down.
edit: I just don't want to use massive hunter + automate. To me, that's a line I refuse to cross. Quickmate is enough for me.

[Radical Dreamer]

Leaderboards are boring as fuck in CM right now, because it's entirely luck and not really based on skill anymore.

Even so, Challenge Mode seems like a step in the right direction for PSO2's competitive side compared to Time Attacks, and it'd be great if Sega could develop it further. I do agree that CM is too luck-based, but RNG is a problem that plagues this game in general.

[LonelyGaruga]

At this point, I'm not even sure you know what you're arguing. Your point has changed like three times, while mine hasn't changed once. It's like you're incapable of backing down in any authentic way.
We were always talking about his tree, and how 44 S-atk was worth less than +4 SP into Massive Hunter. Never once was that not apparent, and yet here you are arguing that Massive Hunter is worse than Combat Escape(A skill bound to S-atk-only weapon) on some theoretical bow-katana hybrid BR/HU tree that was never talked about until it was convenient for you to bring it up.

My argument has only been that Combat Escape has more going for it than Massive Hunter does, so comparing the two is needlessly simple-minded and makes no sense. "Massive Hunter is like Combat Escape, so you should get Massive Hunter" is utterly ridiculous logic no different from the "PSO2 is for the PC and the Vita, therefore PSO2 is a Vita game" thing you were going on about elsewhere.

If you want to argue entire builds, I suppose I should point out that FI/BR with the Evil katana is stronger than anything BR/HU could possibly bring to the table. What strengths does BR/HU bring to the table? It brings survivability. Combat Escape, Massive Hunter, Automate Halfline, Iron Will, Never Give Up. That isn't to say that BR/HU is bad, but its strengths should be utilized if you're going to run with it in the first place.

How, in any form or fashion, this isn't a comparison between the two combination's advantages, completely escapes me. I see no reason to believe that this specific paragraph was ever about what Maininbluejumpsuit's options are for his build. You bring up Fi/Br as a superior option based on inaccurate assumptions. You misdiagnose Br/Hu's strengths as merely being superior survival ability, so I gave multiple examples of how Br/Hu is better than Fi/Br without ever touching upon superior defensive abilities. Br/Hu is better played as a hybrid, so I brought up playing a hybrid build.

Essentially, my arguments have been the nature of "No, you're oversimplifying things, you're not looking at the bigger picture", in case it isn't clear enough for you. I hope you get it now, because I see no reason to put up with accusations that I don't even know my own argument. That's a childish and stupid thing to suggest. Just because you can't follow or incorrectly assess why I'm arguing doesn't mean I don't know what I'm arguing about.

But that's exactly the kind of assumption that you would make based off the assumptions that I'm arguing about in the first place, so I don't see any reason to expect better from you, so whatever. I'm done.