Horrible Challenge Mode Groups

[TaigaUC]

I guess so, but I think it'd be nice if the game was designed in a better way so as to prevent PUGs from sucking so much.
I mean, what's the point of having PUGs if so many people have no idea what to do? Game design issue.

The same goes for setting up organized runs.
There's so much they could do towards making organizing easier.
As I suggested previously, I'd really like to be able to fill empty group slots with randoms.
I haven't played many recent MMOs, but I wonder if PSO2 is the only modern game without a proper group search system.

[Totori]

They should add a few anti-asshole systems.
1. If you do absolutely nothing in C-Mode (or EQs), you get penalized or receive nothing.
2. If you keep picking up VR capsules and wasting VR, the game tracks how much time you've wasted and you get penalized.
3. The game should be able to track people constantly leaving runs. People ought to be penalized for doing it too often.
4. If you keep doing the above repeatedly, you get banned from C-Mode (or EQs) for a day? Maybe.

With 3 and 4. That can be kinda a pain for peeps with terrible internet though. Still a pain when people disconnect, yes. Just should really expect to always finish mission 10 in every random group, it's really not gonna happen. For that just make a set MPA. More coordination that way.

[Kondibon]

I guess so, but I think it'd be nice if the game was designed in a better way so as to prevent PUGs from sucking so much.
I mean, what's the point of having PUGs if so many people have no idea what to do? Game design issue.

The same goes for setting up organized runs.
There's so much they could do towards making organizing easier.
As I suggested previously, I'd really like to be able to fill empty group slots with randoms.
I haven't played many recent MMOs, but I wonder if PSO2 is the only modern game without a proper group search system.

Personally I think one of the biggest problems with the game's design is that a lot things are designed to be done in a way that ends up not being optimal, thus putting people who get the surface concept at odds with the people who understand the deeper mechanics. The fact that they're going to make VR capsules reward bonus miles for overflowing is going to make it worse. Personally I think they should just let the VR bar go into some sort of "overtime", but that's a different conversation.

Another good examples is GW2 where a lot of tricks people do to make dungeon runs quicker or easier are unintuitive or counter to what the devs meant you to do. Likewise a lot of open world events are actually more rewarding if you let them fail and start over, something people aren't going to automatically know, and goes against the design of the game.

Going back to what I said about the VR capsule thing, it's unituitive that the things you're meant to pick up shouldn't be picked up immediately. The best solution would make it so there's no loss if you pick them up when it's full.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that, the problem isn't just bad players but the fact that theings you should be doing aren't intuitive enough, or run counter to what the most obvious thing to do is (another, less important example would be elder's arms). So the solution isn't simply splitting the playerbase but making the game mechanics more intuitive and consistent (picking up VR caps is good, it should always be good).

Or something like that.

[wefwq]

I think that if a person doesn't want to bother completing a short test to introduce them to the gameplay mode, they probably won't care enough to play the mode properly.
In which case, they shouldn't be jumping into proper runs and ruining it for everyone else.

Also note that my suggestion doesn't stop people from intentionally being assholes.
I tried Magatsu a few days ago. The same JP Ranger asshole kept leaving within a few minutes. Every time.
They didn't even know how to use WB properly. They may have been the same person overwriting good WBs and placing them on random body parts.
Probably being an asshole on purpose.

They should add a few anti-asshole systems.
1. If you do absolutely nothing in C-Mode (or EQs), you get penalized or receive nothing.
2. If you keep picking up VR capsules and wasting VR, the game tracks how much time you've wasted and you get penalized.
3. The game should be able to track people constantly leaving runs. People ought to be penalized for doing it too often.
4. If you keep doing the above repeatedly, you get banned from C-Mode (or EQs) for a day? Maybe.

Maybe making something like cooldown timer to retake a quest if you abandoning it? and the amount of waiting time will increase depend on how much you abandoning quest continuously
But it'll fuck with some quest on main ship like when people just want to clear certain CO/DO and didn't plan to finish the quest itself...

[jiasu73]

no fellow foreigner wants to duo

[TaigaUC]

@Kondibon
You're right, it's unintuitive. That's the word I wanted to use.
Overtime would probably work well, since there are limited capsules.
Makes me wonder why there's such a limit.

@wewfq
Cooldown timer sounds like a good idea.

Ladies and gentlemen, we've probably just had more brainstorming and game design discussion than SEGA has had for a long time!

[Rehal]

Had a run today where I was VR manager. We got to M5, I went left. Get to Goldrahda room, clear it. Random JP person suddenly decides that the they should pick up up the 30% VR capsule that clearing Goldrahda room unlocks since it won't overfill.
So now we turn back around, head towards other side, kill cougar. Because that JP person had to pick up the capsule, I'm stuck waiting in Cougar room waiting for VR to go down so I can pick up the 30% without overfilling. End result is that Falz Arms on other side die before that happens, causing me to teleport into the center instead of to Falz Arm room, thereby completely missing the 15% capsule in the Falz Arm room.

If you're not VR manager, even if you're not overfilling, you should NEVER pick up VR capsules. The only time it's ever okay is if the mission is literally going to fail if you don't.

Couldn't you take a detour to the other side instead of running into the teleporter?

Or did SEGA change stuffs after introducing the overfill bonus? . w.

[Maenara]

Couldn't you take a detour to the other side instead of running into the teleporter?

Or did SEGA change stuffs after introducing the overfill bonus? . w.

The second Falz Arm died right as I was using the teleporter, didn't react fast enough.

[Zorafim]

The community in FFXIV has an interesting solution to difficult fights. Often, fights are released where a small mistake can wipe the party, so every player needs to play perfectly. Since a single new player can make a run impossible, the community split the fight up into three different types of groups.
You can create a:

Learning party, where you learn the basic mechanics of the fight. The fight isn't expected to get past 50% before the group fails.
Clear party, where the goal is to simply complete the fight. The party will break as soon as the fight is complete, and it's not guaranteed that they'll be able to get through it.
Farm parties, where everyone is expected to know the fight inside and out. Because everyone has to play perfectly to clear a run, and everyone is expected to have completed a clear party, failures are rare.

As has been mentioned, splitting the community up to teach them how a fight or level works is the way to go. A system like this, even if it's all player based, will help tremendously with the organization of these runs. If a party is all learning together, they can take each obstacle at a time, learning about new ones as they practice old ones. If a party already knows everything, they can just focus on the end rewards.

Ladies and gentlemen, we've probably just had more brainstorming and game design discussion than SEGA has had for a long time!

Welcome to Phantasy Star.
You'll be surprised how much more thought the fanbase puts into games than the designers. That's part of the reason fanmade games can be so much better than official ones.

There is zero correlation between player level on the main game and skill level in CM.

Well... It's more likely a player who has reached cap is more skilled than a player who just started. What that likeliness is, and how much more skill, I cannot say. That being said, I don't think levels are the answer. I just think the player should have some kind of test they need to complete to see if they have the skill to do this. Because if they don't, it's frustrating for both the player and those he parties with.

[Kusurian]

Considering attempting a few more runs sometime today, not sure when though...