Summoner Class Discussion

[Kondibon]

Everybody is welcome to play whatever class they want as long as they get the job/damage done.

I think you're putting words in my mouth because of Kril... I never said Te/Su is trash, just that I think there are better options, and in the context of completing stuff as fast as possible something else might be better. Basically I don't think Te/Su can carry pugs as hard as something that just does obscene personal damage, so why bother with support in the first place? Also I'd like to point out that "getting the job done" is really subjective. :/

Basically I think I'm talking about something entirely different, so whatever.

EDIT: also, for the record, I'd rather se a Te/Su than a Te/Hu or Te/Fi in a boss eq.

Here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAkh2BqrboA
Thats how much more Su/Gu does.

I already know about that video (I'm pretty sure I'm the one that first linked it in this thread). I meant exact numbers. You can't see them because of the 999,999 cap for the damage display. I'm like legitimately curious how high they're hitting by comparison.

EDIT: Actually this reminds me. I kinda wish people would take small organized builds into consideration, considering I've seen 2-4 people clear content faster than full MPAs. Like getting a full 12 people organized is one thing, but if you could get less than a party and still carry super hard why aren't more people talking about it?

[sparab]

Also I'd like to point out that "getting the job done" is really subjective. :/

My bottom line is 10% MPA damage. Of course there will be people doing less than 5% even with RaHu or FoTe, and you just have to carry twice as hard with leet class instead of running the "creative builds that does borderline damage".
Sega thought banning parser would stop the flaming on bad players, but the hate just turned on minority class instead.

Actually this reminds me. I kinda wish people would take small organized builds into consideration, considering I've seen 2-4 people clear content faster than full MPAs. Like getting a full 12 people organized is one thing, but if you could get less than a party and still carry super hard why aren't more people talking about it?

Most players are lazy and fear the creative. For most contents, you can find a random 12-man pug faster than grab another random player. Plus sega gave up on 4 player contents after EP1 and chain trigger is the only party play mechanic that have ever existed.
No, AGP does not count.

[Kondibon]

My bottom line is 10% MPA damage.

I don't think it would be statistically possible for every member of a full MPA to all do at least 10% of the damage... And that's not even taking into account the fact that there's almost always at least one person doing 20~30%. Besides... the whole issue here is that everyone has different ideas of what should be the baseline. I mean... MY baseline is just being able to complete the EQ at all. That doesn't mean I shouldn't consider how other people feel. It's really silly to think that your minimum requirement is somehow better because it's a lower bar.

And again I go back to how the EQ system almost forces people to play with those of different mentalities and goals.

Most players are lazy and fear the creative. For most contents, you can find a random 12-man pug faster than grab another random player. Plus sega gave up on 4 player contents after EP1 and chain trigger is the only party play mechanic that have ever existed.
No, AGP does not count.

That's literally what those party drop things are for. I do it any time I'm doing a boss EQ and plan on using chain trigger. And either way, I wasn't talking about randoms. Finding a full group of 11 other people you know well for an EQ is hard. But most people have at least a couple of friends or team members on that they do random EQs with (unless they're like me and have no friends, but that's their problem). I feel like everyone forgets that a group of 2-3 really good players can complete most EQs faster than a full MPA of bad/undergeared ones.

[sparab]

And again I go back to how the EQ system almost forces people to play with those of different mentalities and goals

It is because sega does not have the braid power to make a recruit message board or 12 player party. Above that, they don't want to have such system anyway.
Sakai mentioned he likes to have people with "different mentalities and goals" playing together.

Finding a full group of 11 other people you know well for an EQ is hard. But most people have at least a couple of friends or team members on that they do random EQs with (unless they're like me and have no friends, but that's their problem). I feel like everyone forgets that a group of 2-3 really good players can complete most EQs faster than a full MPA of bad/undergeared ones.

I don't have friend or team either. The real good players seem to be either playing with their circle or too proud to play with others. For more challenging contents, like first week famitsu TD, I'd just join those organized pug instead.

[Dephinix]

Is there any kind of calculation for Marron damage? I was wondering if 200 t atk would be a big enough factor for it, among some other things I have upstairs.

[Zephyrion]

Is there any kind of calculation for Marron damage? I was wondering if 200 t atk would be a big enough factor for it, among some other things I have upstairs.

Unfortunately, it's not as simple as that, 200 Atk's significance depends on you and your pet's stats : the higher they are, the less bonus damage you'll get from it. you can use the big approximation that 30 ATK is pretty much more or less 1% damage, you'd get about 6% bonus damage from All ATK up 1 and 2

I suck at this type of calculation, but I can leave useful tidbits for those who can do that confidently and without derping
Pet stats are like weapon stats, so pet damage is calculated from both your and your pet attack values combined.

A simple example
You have 1000 ATK, your marron has 1000 ATK and is 60 light, which means you add 600 ATK to that value. you hit a dagan which is weak to light, meaning 20% damage from the element which makes for 1720 ATK for the guy. you see him, trigger alter ego and and hit the guy (no sympathy and no average stance because I'm lazy) with a marron break (power value is 1414). Since I'm very lazy, we'll pretend the dagan doesn't have any defense, and we'll pretend attack variance is not thing, so this is for max damage only

2720 (your total attack) *0.2 *14.14 (this is Marron break's power value) 1.2 (All Attack bonus 1) * 1.2 (all Attack bonus 2) * 1.2 (Alter Ego) *14.14 (this is Marron break's power value) = 13293 max value (lots of parameter lacking for the sake of making it simple
now with All ATK up

2920 * 0.2 * 14.14 * 1.2 * 1.2 * 1.2 = roughly 14270

You can use this :http://4rt.info/psod/ to get not botched damage calculations and get all the parameters in, my example was just for the sake of roughly showing how it works.

As a final tidbit marron strike power notation is 25500 but this is only for lv 3 strike. lv1 is 2550 and lv 2 17850

[Dephinix]

Thanks a lot, really appreciate it!

[ArcaneTechs]

"Everybody is welcome to play whatever class they want as long as they get the job/damage done"

See I want to believe this but when some of us have multi ship runs to do and we can't even manage a 2nd or 3rd run (or however many we can do within 30mins) and it's all because a group of individuals decide to play "niche" classes because "muh playstyle setup" etc then I'm not okay with this. A lot of us try to make the best and use of the 30mins we have but when the DPS isn't going quick enough or people aren't picking up the pace "when they think they're doing fine", it doesn't help, all you do is hinder the mpa and either people leave hoping for a re-roll or people have to suck it up because them.

Obviously org runs with strategic class builds are gonna be best but even a strategic org run full of "niche" builds wont excel as good as them (obviously you know this even with skilled players). And idk about you, your damage comparison in pug runs, I can't really take it "too" serious because it's super easy to place top 3 with random scrubs, organized runs are the only way I can see it showing some sort of difference and I say this because using a 71/44 FI/HU on XH pug runs and placing 1-3 is a bit ridiculous (with appropriate gear of course)

Oh ya and I thought HU/SU was a Eng thing only (cant learn the game etc not getting into this right now) but holy hell blew my mind when I found out it's been a thing with JP players as well for quite some time

Edit: post geared toward Sparab etc

[Kondibon]

See I want to believe this but when some of us have multi ship runs to do and we can't even manage a 2nd or 3rd run (or however many we can do within 30mins) and it's all because a group of individuals decide to play "niche" classes because "muh playstyle setup" etc then I'm not okay with this.

I'd just like to point out that bad playstyles are more likely the cause of a run going bad than doing slightly less than the best damage.

EDIT: I say this because outside of something like TD where splitting up is important you can literally carry an MPA with 2 people and complete it faster. Like. I understand how you feel but blaming the other players' builds is silly with how fast I've seen low man runs go.

Obviously org runs with strategic class builds are gonna be best but even a strategic org run full of "niche" builds wont excel as good as them (obviously you know this even with skilled players).

Well that's just a silly thing to say because you're implying that anyone here said that a full party of weird builds is ideal for anything. I mean... I could also say that a full party of Gu/Ras could do bosses faster than a party of Ra/Hus. So Ra/Hu is garbage too?

Oh ya and I thought HU/SU was a Eng thing only (cant learn the game etc not getting into this right now) but holy hell blew my mind when I found out it's been a thing with JP players as well for quite some time

Based on what I've seen and heard a larger percentage of the JP community is casual players. Not every JP player (probably not even most of them) are those people posting solo speed clears of raid bosses. :T

[Dephinix]

Maron:
- Megaton Parfait: Because.
- Gyakuten Parfait: 6% dmg ↑ when its HP is below 1/4. This will aways activate on bomb throw.
- Ultimate Parfait: If you l(ry

- Henkan Roll: Take 4% of your pet's DEF stats and add that number to their ATK. Maron's DEF isn't that high, but it's something. (Example: Maron no buff 13* Lv120 T-DEF 1271, they would gain ~51 T-ATK for that.)
- Shikkari Roll: Figure I'll mention that if you put 2 Shikkari on a maron, the recovery time is 36 seconds instead of 60 seconds.

Is Daredevil/Madame Parfait not advised for Marron?