Hunter Discussion

[Achelousaurus]

I don't think sword needs to do more damage, I feel it does plenty. The issue during MPAs is more with its speed and the fact it needs to wind-up in order to get to its full potential. Even with max fury gear it can sometimes be difficult to get this, depending somewhat on your MPA. For solo play I think it's fine.

Essentially it's the dedication required for sword that puts people off it I believe. You need to Sacrifice Bite, which goes when you swap weapon. Then you need to build gear, and it's a heat-type which means it wears off over time if you're not hitting anything or again if you swap weapon. If you do manage to get a full sacrifice bite PA off however you should already get max gear or near it if you took Fury Gear.

For bosses you're generally better off using Ideal graptor-zenith. I want to say Holding Current is better DPS against bosses too than most of what Sword offers, assuming you can land it on a good target. I tend to like using that on Ult Agnis too cause fuck chasing birds around with a sword.

This.
I love sword pas in general, they are badass, strong and have good range/aoe.
Nova Strike for example has massive aoe and hits hard enough to be good on bosses.
But gear + sacrifice bite mean you are forever too late to the party, like dagger.
Weapons that are relying on gimicks to be good can never be as good as weapons you can use straight away in general. In controlled situations they can be anything but sword or dagger is not something you can simply pick up and use for great effect in most situations.

What sword needs is for gear to be 10% damage and a range boost like for partizan. Good and useful, but not crucial. And sacrifice bite to be made obsolete but buffing all pas half its power and making the pa worthless. Now sword is readily available and not something you can't even pull out of its sheath before others killed the enemies.
Hell, if you are soloing and there is a boss that forces you to dodge a lot you will lose all your gear.

Well, tbh OE is vastly overrated. Outside people showing off controlled situations like easy solo bosses I have yet to see many good uses of it. It's just too slow and with anyone else around mobs and bosses are quite likely to move out of range. And in the first place the aoe is shit for mobbing.
Even solo some bosses can easily move out of the way. It's only real advantage is that it doesn't need to be charged.
Hell, even though you have super armor this doesn't prevent enemies from damaging you and despite using it rarely I had plenty of cases where enemies hit me so much I had to heal ASAP afterwards.

In most cases (provided you have a good amount of gear ready) Rising Edge or Nova Strike are better.
I always get a good deal more damage (more than just from Average S Charge) with Nova Strike than with OE and both are at lvl 17.

Anyway, I also feel like Wired Lance suffers greatly from having so many grabs. It's just that these will piss off everyone else cause they rarely are strong enough to kill anything right away, but will make it hard for everyone else to hit the enemy.

[Tunga]

That's how you do it. You first think about what PA you want to use for normal PA reason then just think about chaining it so you can get your TAJA out of it. There is no reason to have something useless like Stun Coincido or Sonic Arrow purely for setting up TAJA.

Or just skip the acrobatics and have a tajab combo set in your palette. Less work same gains. Also Sonic arrow is the best gear filling PA try it sometime.

[vantpers]

This.
I love sword pas in general, they are badass, strong and have good range/aoe.
Nova Strike for example has massive aoe and hits hard enough to be good on bosses.
But gear + sacrifice bite mean you are forever too late to the party, like dagger.
Weapons that are relying on gimicks to be good can never be as good as weapons you can use straight away in general. In controlled situations they can be anything but sword or dagger is not something you can simply pick up and use for great effect in most situations.

What sword needs is for gear to be 10% damage and a range boost like for partizan. Good and useful, but not crucial. And sacrifice bite to be made obsolete but buffing all pas half its power and making the pa worthless. Now sword is readily available and not something you can't even pull out of its sheath before others killed the enemies.
Hell, if you are soloing and there is a boss that forces you to dodge a lot you will lose all your gear.

Well, tbh OE is vastly overrated. Outside people showing off controlled situations like easy solo bosses I have yet to see many good uses of it. It's just too slow and with anyone else around mobs and bosses are quite likely to move out of range. And in the first place the aoe is shit for mobbing.
Even solo some bosses can easily move out of the way. It's only real advantage is that it doesn't need to be charged.
Hell, even though you have super armor this doesn't prevent enemies from damaging you and despite using it rarely I had plenty of cases where enemies hit me so much I had to heal ASAP afterwards.

In most cases (provided you have a good amount of gear ready) Rising Edge or Nova Strike are better.
I always get a good deal more damage (more than just from Average S Charge) with Nova Strike than with OE and both are at lvl 17.

Anyway, I also feel like Wired Lance suffers greatly from having so many grabs. It's just that these will piss off everyone else cause they rarely are strong enough to kill anything right away, but will make it hard for everyone else to hit the enemy.

Gear and Sacrifice Bite are easy enough to charge but make the weapon useless when you have to recharge both of them during weapon switches and at really low hp mobs, and sword also is nowhere near good enough to warrant the unreliability they bring. The dead enemies before you are done with gear meme has gone long enough. It's mostly that Force can pull out AoE that you were never able to, or other weapons keep outdamaging sword even at full gear thing. The main problem is precisely because sword has pretty poor DPS notations and DPP notations just help to make up for horribly slow normals that can't cancel and recover 10PP at the best hit. And no Daggers are crazy good at anything that doesn't have to do with mobbing.

OE is also good and if you don't use both Nova and OE you are pretty bad. OE is low player population/high hp mobs/many mobs killing hero perfect for TD4 MPAs that consist of mostly crystal gods that can't even play AIS properly. But of course you have to be smart enough not to either die or miss it most of the time by just predicting aggro properly. Over End is also one of the few PAs that are good damage dealers when you want to stay in the air. Sword also doesn't have much problems with bosses that attack too much when you just start Ignite Parrying. Even uncrafted twister from air JG or JG into ride slasher is fast enough for pretty much anything.

And holy shit Hu/Brs are so disgusting.

And no Sonic Arrow is bad. Gear building is almost entirely taken care of by Guilty Break as gap closer for Hunter mains or Sacrifice Bite that you need to use for damage bonus anyway. Even then you would probably prefer Ride Slasher or crafted Twister Fall.

[Achelousaurus]

Well, all I see is someone that claims a lot and delivers nothing. If stuff is so easy, please don't be another pointless braggart and prove what you are talking about.
And not just once or twice because as I mentioned, it's the unreliability that makes it bad.
Also, predicting aggro is BS. This game has bs aggro management and enemies can get aggro from people halfway across the map. It's often luck.
And honestly, if you think fi is good for TD I question your sanity. Next you're saying fi needs LB and brave stance cause fuck wise stance. Cause ofc you are an epic aggro manager than can always generate more aggro than towers.

[vantpers]

What do I need to deliver to you? A hunter soloing Leone duo from Ult Lilipa in 5 minutes which means two ultra aggressive bosses at once? Not even much Ignite Parrying cause it's quite bad for hitting Brave and weakpoints there properly. The problem is that you people believe that Sword can never be good because it has to use Sacrifice Bite and Gear. The truth is it only matters to that extent in something like TAs with half of it being dashing around, other than that if everything dies before you are done unsheathing it, it's your fault. Just do the math, if you can't manage to even start it up, without the gear requirement you would've been left doing one light PA or Over Ending empty space. It should be removed but it won't make Sword much better, especially at things it has always been kinda good at.

Predicting aggro isn't BS, the only random element that matters is pretty much your MPA's behavior (that can be predicted to decent extent). Other than that you hit enemies to build up aggro, cast War Cry to reset with small aggro on you that can be taken off by light damage done by other players.

I don't even know where I said that Fighter is good at any kind of TD that doesn't mean Twin Daggers. How the fuck are they slow to start up anyway, you are slow.

But seriously Fighter isn't bad at TD when you realize you TD4 is composed of really many Exoda and you can utilize your DS for mobbing or even some decent crafted Partizan for some situations. And how can taking aggro off towers be hard? One War Cry resets it and then you hit the mobs a couple of times and they should be dead before they can regain anything. You can easily take it off bosses or mobs alike without War Cry just by doing huge damage.

Seriously why would you talk about how Sword is bad when playing Hu/Br of all things.

Edit: Also yes Wise Stance is a problem because often mostly on bosses as Fighter you end doing a thing called huge damage which makes it always turn to you unless someone does better damage. It's pretty probable even with Brave Stance, and gets worse when you get better modifiers from Wise Stance.

[kyoex]

Fi is about limitbreaking, huge melee dps , hu is more gear , tank and aggro better. +10% hu weapons damage.

[vantpers]

I swear Hunter discussion is dead in 46 posts. This place is nothing but filthy Hu/Br's thinking Austere makes them good. Or filthy Automate Hu/Fis thinking Austere makes them good with 60 attack 110hp units. Or filthy Hu/Fis with 120 attack units and Austere that still suck. All of them are filth. Hu/Br's will probably still think they are good after TAJA PP save. And seriously fuck Chainsawd.

You know what a true Hunter is? It's a Hunter with Ideal Sword. Because he goes against the stereotyping of Sword = mobbing (where most of them pretend they are good cause no way to prove otherwise, if it's TD just blame it on Forces and something something). He follows his weapons even in the depths of no damage hell, ready to perfect it wherever and whenever. None of those guys that just grab Sword to spam Over End with Automate choose Ideal. Ideal as a weapon also represents true hard work. No schedule, no RNG, only best mode over and over again.

It's not really different with other weapons. 90% of Wired Lance users? Fucking Fi/Hu whipping it out for HC only. 90% of Partizan users? Spam that one fucking volg into pick up throw combo Fi/Hu with that PUT damage up Partizan holy shit. I see so little real Hu/Fis nowadays. Hunter can't even get decent buffs nowadays because Hu/Fis are 90% fake and are just happy they can go in a corner and launch their over end spam macro while surviving on massive otome, so they say hunter is good and give us more defensive skills actually to help Ra/Hu out wwww. Or those guys that can only solo XQs on automate and think all is well cause Hunter can just be the easiest class that doesn't do shit besides managing to survive while playing like a retard.

[Tunga]

You know what a true Hunter is? It's a Hunter with Ideal Sword.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztVMib1T4T4
For real tho just stop...

[Strobo_Lemon]

What's the highest DPS option for Sword nowadays? Crafted Twister Fall? Better to spam one PA or to combo?

[vantpers]

Most of anything with TAJA nowadays it's better to combo. Theoretically your highest both DPS and DPP right now is Ignite Parrying when you hit your JG during it.

Other than that there is problem with DPP versus DPS. Theoretically fully hit crafted twister or even normal twister do great DPS, but their DPP sucks compared to most of everything. Crafted Twister when held long and Over End though do okay DPS and have great DPP. Generally with how many options you have I would say you want to prioritize Ignite over keeping TAJA (as in I would rather hit Ignited Parrying without TAJA than other sword PA with TAJA), and combo any other (not ignite) PA into another as much as possible. Generally I just use Over End and Rising Edge as general DPS with long DPP, with crafted long Twister, albeit I dislike how the shockwave can miss weakpoints. Ride Slasher is good, but not amazing if you can hit all ticks. Nova Strike is overall a pure downgrade of Rising Edge at single targets but the hitbox is useful at times. Guilty Break lets you continue combos after the boss moving while keeping the DPS up, but don't use it too much. Short Twister is good when you have some PP to dump.

DPS and DPP stats are best taken from Swiki.

Edit: Also the Swiki page about crafted Twister can be kinda misleading as it's done based on perfect -10PP max damage craft. -8PP and around 190% power crafted Twister I feel is already good enough but -10PP is worth getting for sure, together with any additional power.