Why most rangers dont use launchers?

[Mattykins]

Yeah, honestly, I don't think launchers are that hard to learn. They don't require as much precision as launchers and there's no shortage of AoE.

There's some passable cheapo launchers out there. If all else fails, get a Red. It's not hard to grind a 7* and you really only need 3 boosters and like 2m meseta to make a red weap good.

As for damage, it's a mobbing weap, fuck. Rifle rolls high numbers because it's made for tearing down bosses with a lot of HP. All launcher needs is a few good hits and a bunch of mobs should melt. I'm not even that hard of a hitter; using a Xie launcher and crappy 75 R-ATK units, and yeah, I have to whip out a WB on chunkier mobs here and there when I solo XH, but for the most part, it works for me >:T

Yeah, it's not the best mobbing weap, but we can't all be Forces and Fighters, aye?

[Unnamed Player]

While lauchner is definitely a decent mobbing tool the only thing it's necessary for is the Cluster Bullet PA, everything else can be accomplished by other means.

[TaigaUC]

How somebody feels towards a weapon/class and spreading nonsense about the effectiveness of launchers are two different things (don't take it personally).
If some Hunters said "I don't like swords, the playstyle feels too slow, so I'd rather use WL and Partizans" ... would it be acceptable to let them shitpost about how swords are useless, how swords need a buff or "eh, look at me, I can Guren Tessen"?

Now about your "JP friends" who played PSO1 and don't like launchers on PSO2: it's been said a countless number of times - PSO1 and PSO2 are NOT the same game, people should stop the pointless comparisons. It gets even more retarded when people try to weigh pso2 launchers against launchers in other games because ... they have..the same name?!

What's next? Let's ask the NFL to use round balls in football, because I played basketball and man, round balls are so much better than egg-shaped ones!

I thought the topic was why Rangers don't use Launchers.
I don't think I was talking about effectiveness so much as why people don't find Launchers attractive.
I brought up JP friends mentioning PSO1's Launchers being better because they enjoyed them more in PSO1, for whatever reason. Not just because they are stronger in other games.
Is there something illegal on this forum about referring to actual Japanese friends? I'm not allowed to talk about them?
I didn't say my other friends because quite frankly I haven't asked them what they thought about Launcher.

Apparent effectiveness compared to the other available weapons is just one of the reasons why someone might not find Launcher attractive.
Within that "effectiveness" is also how that person set up their Launcher, and how easy they felt it was to get good results compared to whatever else they have.
These are a lot of factors at play here, and you should know that.
Besides, I'm pretty sure the word I used was "feel", not "effectiveness".

I know how to use Launcher somewhat well. I Z-aim, I've done TA runs and AQ runs solo with Launcher. I'm not the best out there, obviously, but I'm not an idiot.
I still don't like how they feel, and I personally don't get the same effectiveness out of them as other weapons I use.
I don't think I ever said anything like Launcher is "crap at mobbing" or a "crap weapon" or whatever. If I did, then I'm sorry for implying so.
I'm not perfect. I can't always express myself clearly and concisely. Language is also prone to misinterpretation.
I just think there are things SEGA could do to make Launchers more fun and attractive to more people. Is that really such a bad thing?

If the topic is why Rangers don't use Launchers, and people enjoyed Launchers more in PSO1, then it's not "irrelevant" to imply that the changes they made to them in PSO2 have made them less attractive.
The PSO1 and other game references are examples of other instances where Launchers as a weapon type are more attractive.
Those examples could be used to get more people to try Launcher.

Here's an example of something relevant:
One of my friends loves Partisans/Glaives in Demon Souls and Dark Souls.
But he hated how they were changed in Dark Souls 2. It's the same series (to Dark Souls 1), the same weapon type, but they play completely differently.
He hates it so much he wanted to quit the game early. He didn't even bother doing the DLC that he bought.
How is it "irrelevant" that they changed a type of weapon that some people enjoyed, into something that they don't like as much? In the SAME SERIES?

PSO2 is the sequel to PSO1. It's not the "same game" per se, but it's the same series.
People actually go into the sequel of a game expecting to enjoy their favorite weapon, you know.
Are you going to bitch about MaiDoll's comics comparing previous PS game Hunters to PSO2?
It's a completely valid complaint if their favorite weapon type is implemented in an unattractive manner, especially if it was done well in a previous game in the SAME SERIES.

And your football basketball example makes zero sense because it's a completely different sport.
If you wanted to give a better example, you should have described a situation where "If Football got a sequel called Football 2 and the rules were suddenly completely different in an unappealing manner".

I don't think a thread like this is essentially cancer. The thread opener was asking a valid question.
I just came up with some reasons why I and people I've talked to about the same topic don't personally like Launcher, based on our personal impressions and experiences.
The real cancer is people coming into this thread, getting offended, attacking and dismissing other people's opinions and accusing them of implying things that they didn't say, or didn't mean.
What happened to that whole "free speech" thing that people are always going on about?

If you want to point out that Launchers are great for you, then go ahead. Nothing wrong with that.
But the thread is asking "WHY MOST RANGERS DON'T USE LAUNCHERS". It's not asking "why Launcher mains like Launchers".
The fact is a lot of people don't seem to use Launchers. Whether Launchers are great for you doesn't change that.

One last thing: I'm well aware I asked for tips on how to improve on using Launchers in another thread.
I took all of that into consideration when I wrote my posts. That's why I didn't outright say Launchers are crap, because you already proved me wrong.


@Re: Gamepad/Mouse/KB argument:
I've been using mouse/keyboard since I was little years. I used to be pretty great at FPS aiming with mouse.
I started playing console gamepad aiming stuff recently. Took a little getting used to, but I'm fine with it now.
In general, I can switch between control types for various games without losing much effectiveness, if at all.
So, I don't think it's impossible for someone to be great at or better than others at any particular control method.

[Kondibon]

I'm with Taiga on this. The thread is supposed to be about why people do or don't use launchers, not whether or not they're worth using.

[Eos]

Many rangers don't use launchers because they are bad. Are we done with the thread now?

[TaigaUC]

This is why I don't like to check for replies whenever I write anything anywhere.
It's usually someone getting unnecessarily offended or reacting excessively negatively.
By all means though, please do correct me if I ever say anything factually incorrect.

End Attract is probably more attractive (see what I did there?) because it's easy to slap WB and one shot a bunch of fat bosses with it.
Probably similar to why people prefer End Attract over Banish Nemesis nowadays. It's easier to set up than WB -> Chase Arrow -> Banish -> Nemesis -> Whatever.
I feel like it's easier to get a good Rifle too, but maybe that's just me. Oh yeah, and Rifle is also used between Gunner and Ranger, so there's that.

[Selphea]

Last time I played XH EQ/UQ/LQ I was able to land plenty of +100k damage hits on mobs, being more useful than a BR with my gravity bombs and having a stronger CC than a BR with my Cosmos. How fast you can get to the next spawn shouldn't be relevant to how well a class compete against others. And a Divine Launcher missile will always travel faster than any Guren dash BR.

I was kidding but seriously speaking I do use Launcher if I main Ra in a quest with lots of mobs.

Yes an epic Divine Launcher that manages to headshot a fully broken Malluda, break one of the balls on the Malluda beside it and take out all the adds around them is pretty great, probably in the neighborhood of 1 million damage in a single shot without WB when everything is added together.

But I cannot deny the Guren dasher will still most likely parse higher because they started doing DPS first and Divine Launcher can't curve around corners or travel up a slope and back down again. Given similar gear and skill levels ofc.

And that's ok because trash is trash and if someone wants to dash ahead and oneshot them 1 second earlier then so be it. The ones that typically slow the MPA down and make me waste booster time are the bosses and tougher trash.

[Cyber Meteor]

Many rangers don't use launchers because they are bad.

In fact that's because so many ppl spread that idea they were bad, that when someone will ask about using Launcher that's the response he'll usually get. I play a lot with Launcher, but the thing is, as other said before, Launcher are mostly mobbing weapon, no matter how you cut it Rifle will outclass Launcher on bosses, but rifle will usually be outclassed on mobs above a certain number of them at the same time, which mean for small groups, both will do good, for very huge group (not zondeeled) Launcher will still perform better than rifle.
However, End Attract kinda broke this rule with his high dmg and short charge time while Sphere Eraser, despite looking like it could acheive same purpose (as Penetrate arrow or EA) , didn't got the high dmg it should have, so as of now, it's like having Piercing shell for launcher instead of EA for Launcher, which made Rifle a good alternative now on XH for mobbing.
Before End Attract, during EP3 (not before), ppl had no real reasons to prefer Rifle over Launcher for mobbing (the idea Launcher was bad was already spread because of EP2 though), but now with End Attract it's 50/50. Also, another funny fact: Kuron quest was purposely made to be unpractical with Launcher ( in XH mode) and EA basically made that quest easier to clear in XH. That certainly could mislead some ppl about the deal "Rilfe VS Launcher for mobs" and thus we still see lots of rifle Rangers, and few Launcher Rangers

In short, make Sphere Eraser have EA or Satellite Cannon dmg, and you'll see more ppl using Launcher.

[Para]

I think the other reason that could be justified why people do not use Launchers is that... why use launchers when you can play Force?

[Ordy]

Is there something illegal on this forum about referring to actual Japanese friends? I'm not allowed to talk about them?
I didn't say my other friends because quite frankly I haven't asked them what they thought about Launcher.

Illegal? I used the quotation marks on "JP friends" because I can't see why in this particular case, your friend's ethnicity would matter in the slightest.

I don't think I ever said anything like Launcher is "crap at mobbing" or a "crap weapon" or whatever. If I did, then I'm sorry for implying so.

I quoted your post, but also said: "How somebody feels towards a weapon/class and spreading nonsense about the effectiveness of launchers are two different things (don't take it personally)."

The "spreading nonsense" was mainly reaction to this:

Because launches are shit? Single target its complete shit no discussion, [...] Last point is that Ra is wb slu-support class and if you want stupid high damage and decent mobbing ability you just go cheesy Gu.

I love rokkit launchas in other games but in PSO2 its almost useless.

So in the end launchers are too slow for MPAs (you're there for wb and carry), and too unwieldy for solo play (Gu is superior when it comes to soloing). So unless you're diehard tryhard solo Ra like Soro you wont ever need launchers.

Launcher doesnt see much use at all in relevant content. They really are just too slow.

PSO2 is the sequel to PSO1. It's not the "same game" per se, but it's the same series.
[...]
It's a completely valid complaint if their favorite weapon type is implemented in an unattractive manner, especially if it was done well in a previous game in the SAME SERIES.

I think that's just your point of view. I personally think the exact opposite. PSO1 and 2 share the same story background, lots of weapon/tech types, mags and that's it ... That's why I don't understand why some people on pso2 can get butthurt about the implementation of some pso1 content. I played PSO ep1&2 on DC/GC, loved my spread needle, not going to quit because the weapon is a camo or that pso2 freeze isn't as good as pso1 one.

Nevertheless, I can understand that it could matter to some nostalgic players.

I don't think a thread like this is essentially cancer. The thread opener was asking a valid question.

But the thread is asking "WHY MOST RANGERS DON'T USE LAUNCHERS". It's not asking "why Launcher mains like Launchers".
The fact is a lot of people don't seem to use Launchers.

The real cancer of this thread are the posts I quoted above (about launchers being shit and useless), I wouldn't like to see them spread in people's mind like a cancer.

== My last post in this thread, because IMO everything has been said ==