PSO2 vs PSO

[Zipzo]

otakun is correct.

It really doesn't matter how the developer wants to market it.

Blizzard tried to repeal the "MOBA" tag when Heroes of the Storm released. They said that it was not a MOBA, but a "Hero Brawler". How many people do you think today call it that? Do you think that stuck? It didn't. It's a damn MOBA, and people refer to it as one.

MMORPG does not necessarily mean you have to be actively engaging in activities with a huge amount of people all at once in an large open world. It simply refers to the idea that there is a large number of people within your virtual space. They could be running their own dungeon, sitting in the hub/town, being afk. It doesn't really matter.

Just because PSO2 is instanced doesn't mean it is exempt from being classified as a virtual space being inhabited by a large number of players.

Nobody actively interacts with more than a handful of people at one time out of sheer lack of capability anyway, it's stupid to insinuate that in order for a game to classify as an MMORPG, you must be indulging in some sort of activity that requires 100000 people out of necessity for the genre title.

As for which Phantasy Star is better...I personally think that PSU was better than PSO2. It's a pretty tight race between PSO Ep1&2 and PSU because they did things so differently, it's tough to compare them, but I'd say PSO edges out PSU out of sheer nostalgia and how much more "mysterious" and fun it was.

[SteveCZ]

What the dev said about the genre of the game determines on what they will do on the game. As simple as that.

If the dev says online-action RPG, then that's the game will go, no matter how hard players want to bend them to whatever genre they want to believe about the game.

I also agree on PSO vs PSO2 as apples vs oranges, but everyone can enjoy their nostalgic differences to talk about, both pros and cons.
Sadly, each game will always have something different cause the dev always (of course) want and have to make something new for marketing purposes.

[Selphea]

Isn't MMORPG that one genre where you run around a world full of people standing around with question marks on their heads telling you to go kill 40 monsters or deliver some package to some guy in another town? Then you proceed to park in one spot, press tab-1-2-3 for 40 times and repeat until level cap.

And when you cap, every evening you have to subject yourself to some manchild drill sergeant telling you to throw more dots while 39 other people do stupid stuff like stand in front of a boss breathing fire?

Well, I found 4 saiki units from regular Gunne's without hunting. I needed over 6 months of intense Hildetorr piping to get my God/Battle. The drop rates are very different.

Funny thing, I got my two God/Battles on PSOBB within a day of hunting, each, but GGG has never given me a unit outside of a trigger run.

[Meteor Weapon]

Isn't MMORPG that one genre where you run around a world full of people standing around with question marks on their heads telling you to go kill 40 monsters or deliver some package to some guy in another town? Then you proceed to park in one spot, press tab-1-2-3 for 40 times and repeat until level cap.

And when you cap, every evening you have to subject yourself to some manchild drill sergeant telling you to throw more dots while 39 other people do stupid stuff like stand in front of a boss breathing fire?

One reason why I don't like MMORPG's in the first place, NPC's telling you to do stupid chores and stuff before proceeding to the next area. Well PSO2 had that too but never had that said target respawning endlessly at the same spor over and over, which feels more natural.

[Renvalt]

park in one spot, press tab-1-2-3 for 40 times and repeat until level cap.
And when you cap, every evening you have to subject yourself to some manchild drill sergeant telling you to throw more dots while 39 other people do stupid stuff like stand in front of a boss breathing fire?

This is the biggest reason of why I consider WoW and its clones to be a cancer upon the gaming industry - it was the first spark of many that led to the degrading of gaming difficulty (not to mention making people soft to learning how to actually use common sense tactics - I mean, they can somehow figure out a raid boss but still won't touch other games like Mario/Sonic/etc.?)

Not to mention, fighting like that is... how do I put it? Oh yeah - "dull" and "pacebreaking". Not to mention I just feel like my character is more of a puppet on strings than ever before. At least with PSO2 and other games like it (by which I mean alike in combat gameplay - though again, we're probably not going to see 100% eye to eye on that), I feel like I have to do more, which makes it feel engaging.

I won't argue that WoW has brought some good ideas into the MMO industry - cosmetics over useable gear being one big thing I do thank them for (and by that I mean being able to use in-game gear in a cosmetic manner - without taking away from my combat practicality), but it has also made mindnumbed "sheep" out of the gamer community as well. At least IMO, anyways.

[Shinnomura]

That is why I tend to prefer the old games, what people call bad controls often times just meant less ways to avoid danger. Like how 2d shooters could only dodge by running and jumping but 3D now allows for you to just walk sideways to avoid danger instead of having to time your jumps and such. Keeping things difficult in a 3D game is a challenge nowadays since it means you would have to make things dangerous enough that the person has to utilize all 3 dimensions well to survive. Most games you can just run back and forth in a fight and be fine, the side to side option is just a bonus.

[Achelousaurus]

Bad controls = bad controls, no amount of sugarcoating or nostalgia can change that.
back in the day games were still sorta new, less mainstream and more aimed at kids, that's why they could get away with more shitty game design.

And if a game designer has trouble making something hard just cause it's 2D and not 3D he just sucks so bad he really has to stop making games.

There just is no excuse for bad controls. The horrible misconception that better controls or more convenience = easy games and poor controls or inconvenient gameplay = difficulty is BS that has prevailed far too long and is responsible for ruining far too many games.
Anyone thinking along these lines needs to stop to make and play games ASAP lest he either makes more crap games or supports crap games by buying them.

It's the same nonsensical logic as saying old school horror movies were scary as hell cause they have no cgi but poorly made make up and prosthetics, entirely missing the point of what makes a movie scary and what doesn't.

[[Ayumi]]

So... Favorite fruit?

Freddie Mercury.
(What? I don't eat fruits.)

[Shinnomura]

I don't think there's any problem with a player liking what they like in a game. It's true I haven't played every game but I've never felt like the controls of any game were actually bad. What it has felt like is a different play style, which in turn makes a game more unique instead of playing exactly like every other game.
As far as people needing to not support games with bad controls by buying them, if enough people are buying the game and enjoying it that should be all the proof necessary that the controls are irrelevant or they add to the gameplay. If the customers aren't enjoying it because of the controls it's obviously a problem, but if that's not the case then there's no reason to say it shouldn't be supported.

[Nitro Vordex]

Oh look, another X vs Y thread where we compare completely different games, put on and take off our rose tinted glasses, and argue semantics of MMORPG. (As long as I've been here, it really just doesn't matter. The definition changes as the games change, stop trying to label it. Also, it's an action RPG, no arguing that. )

And by the end, we're all like "Nice opinions".