I don't want to derail the conversation or anything, but damn that's nice male CAST parts.
I've been waiting for nice, bulky robot bits.
I don't want to derail the conversation or anything, but damn that's nice male CAST parts.
I've been waiting for nice, bulky robot bits.
I have to agree strongly with TaigaUC.
Of course there are people that will always be bad, either because they just aren't good at playing or just don't care.
And SEGA makes it very easy to not want to care or bother to get better.
It's easy to get carried in this game, thanks to 12 player parties and characters in general being easily overpowered compared to enemies. Even if a boss is strong, dying isn't a problem with half dolls and all the moons.
Besides that, it's way too time confusing, complicated and just overall boring to upgrade your equipment. And instead of making it easier and more linear, SEGA just makes it more and more confusing, by always adding more mechanics. There are so many things that hold you back from becoming stronger, that even if you don't play good you could at least hit hard.
This becomes especially tiresome and overwhelming if you don't constantly keep up with the game. You come into this game, and you don't even know where to begin to upgrade your equipment. Where do the best weapons currently drop? Do they even drop, or must you farm stones for them? Where do the stones drop and how long until you have enough stones? If you finally have the stones, you have to upgrade the weapon with grinding, affixing and bringing the element up t max, which means even more farming. Besides that, you also want your PA to be max level, but sadly PA drops aren't global, so you have to farm for that separate again.
And all this is just for one weapon type, combine this with needing a rainbow set for some classes, or classes that use multiple weapon, of course barely anyone wants to bother.
Above all, this is just for weapons! Now you have to still worry about your armor, PA crafts, rings and skilltree and make sure your sub class is leveled (don't even get me started on summoner and how much freaking candy you have to farm for all your pets).
And when all is said and done, it's also all only for shaving off a couple seconds in EQs. So, it's understandable, that there are many players that just can't be bothered with all these systems, because it's not truly needed and the reward for all that time and effort is just not worth it.
I just want to mention one thing that's already been said but don't think it's been emphasized enough: this whole game's full on dependency on RNG.
I've been a non Premium player ever since I started playing by choice, I don't really have a need for Premium as I can make all my money in game and know how to play the market whenever I want to make a quick buck. The problem is a lot of new (heck, even old) players don't know how to do it. I'm not gonna stretch this up as it's already been discussed and it's more than obvious.
The bigger problem I would say in someone getting stronger would have to be the RNG implied too, a couple of weeks I was trying to improve my Saiki set by simply adding a Flict Arma to it and I managed to get the chances to 90s %, Apprentice Soul failed here and I snapped thinking over the money I just had lost over a 90%+ chance. This by itself can make ANY player quit the game for a few weeks if they don't know how to pull off some quick buck or if they just drained their funds.
In case a lot of people use AC here, as a lot of people who do tend to lose track on how much income is needed to sustain proper affixing/grinding with in game money, buying the affix with the proper number of slots cost x amount of money, then you need to buy multiples to increase the chance. Even if you do play all your cards right there's always gonna be that one affix that just isn't possible to go over 90% without boost week. The chance is slim but it WILL fail sometimes so that's one way for a player to straight out hate the affixing mechanic in the game.
This is really just my 2 cents on an already old topic and it still hits the same point that was discussed previously: a lot of people still don't want to learn how these mechanics work. But even with trial and error there's a lot of in game money involved being wasted and in the end people just would rather play something else instead of somethin like PSO2 that is just obsessed with the RNG aspect.
I mean there's RNG on weapon grinding, affixing, drops (don't get me started on Saiki drops), etc etc. It's endless.
Honestly the best content I've seen SEGA pulling off these past few months was the Weapon Sheets and the NT Grinding mechanic.
Yeah, a few of my friends (both JP and not) quit/want to quit because they can't be bothered keeping up with the latest updates.
They feel like too many complex things were added. They don't want to learn the new systems and upgrade their gear again.
I'm sure they're not the only ones.
I mean, I understand that those systems are part of the game.
But I think that most of the players SEGA aims the game towards, don't actually find those systems fun.
I think most people just want to log in, wear nice clothes, run a few battles with friends, and then log out.
If something's too complicated, or too separated from what they want to do, they won't bother with it.
As I've said, unlike PSO2ES, PSO2 does not require players do most tutorials, upgrade stuff, or anything. It's all side stuff.
Of course people are going to think that stuff isn't important. Especially if they keep winning anyway.
On a related note, I know several Japanese players who played for over a year and didn't even know the Recycle Shop existed.
I don't remember previous MMOs I've played as having similar issues. They had plenty of other stupid issues, though.
Vindictus' crafting was nice at the start, and then it started requiring ridiculously rare materials and weapons often fell apart from failures.
I quit when they decided to make each battle reduce equipment durability by a significant amount, which always cost a fortune in repairs.
In various games, I remember groups immediately falling apart because people didn't want to work together.
There were people ignoring decided roles, ignoring what other people needed or wanted. The tank'd try to do DPS, or the DPS didn't watch their aggro. Stuff like that.
People still bitched about what other people did. They assumed some builds were ineffective, when they were actually effective... just not popular.
One thing that I do remember, is that whenever I play a new game, I'm always surprised by stuff that's improved over other games.
And then after I play for a while, I'm always disappointed by all the other stuff they've somehow managed to screw up.
It always feels like games take a few steps forward and many steps back.
Something SEGA keeps doing that I don't recall being as much of an issue elsewhere, is creating pitfalls.
As I've said before, I suspect they do this to get people to pay real money for fixing mistakes.
They add stuff that looks attractive and strong, and then you find out it's trash, and you wasted your time and money.
Most people probably don't want to spend time doing research to make sure they're not screwing themselves over.
It's not even just the stuff that's become obsolete. There is way too much useless trash that serves no real purpose other than to confuse people.
If I recall correctly, in other games, it's more obvious that equipment is good and not trash. It's usually more obvious that you need better gear, too.
In PSO2, you can't easily judge effectiveness by rarity, grind level, affixes, latent, or anything. Everything requires rigorous testing and research.
And the more stuff they add, the wider the gap gets. They don't seem to have realized this yet. Or they have, and don't care.
Because they want the strong players to pick up everyone else's slack.
I can imagine that in another year or two, they will probably do something like, adding "SNT" Weapons, which will use another new grinding system.
Then we'll have three grinding systems, and 3 types of the same weapons.
Or they will add Bracelets, which will be like the Ring system, but completely independent and requiring learning some new crap.
Anyway, I'm just rambling on again.
To counter my negativity, I was thinking I should list some positive stuff I like about PSO2 that other games rarely or never have:
- You can name your character whatever the hell you want. Unlike other games, every name isn't $!@&#$ taken. You don't have to pay to reserve names, either.
- You can get nice outfits fairly easily without needing to pay through the nose, or spend the rest of your life grinding.
- Lots of character customization. I particularly hate games where I can't adjust height/proportion. It's nice to have voice pitch variation that doesn't go all warbly.
- It's a true action game, unlike those other "true action games" that are essentially classic MMOs with a crosshair.
- I used to really like the huge, weighty bosses at the start of PSO2 (eg. Ragne), but a lot of the recent bosses don't really have that feel.
And that's all I can think of right now.
Last edited by TaigaUC; Jun 10, 2016 at 07:08 AM.
TBH the game not holding your hand till endgame is good. A game where guides are not important at endgame can only be simple and boring.
And how the fuck does anyone not know about the recycle shop for a year? He never had a proper look around the lobby? This isn't even some actual mmo with the shop tucked away in this one small city in the corner, it's pure instance and a single lobby with the same layout wherever you go.
Also, it's an online rpg, the entire purpose is to get stronger gear to kill stronger enemies.
The game holds your hand enough imo, especially now with the training quests. Everything else is more advance and if you can't be assed to spend the literally 5 minutes required to read up on the basics it's your own fault and problem. Cause if you don't care enough to look up something you don't know, don't blame the game if you suck at it. The majority of obscure mechanics and strats are advanced stuff that doesn't make a huge difference, you will not be unable to beat a boss if you don't use the perfect TAJA combination with the proper status applied on the boss, it will just take a bit longer.
If the game was so easy that guides wouldn't be important, it would have to be so simple that it would get boring real fast.
If you are worried to screw yourself over with a class build, spend the 3 minutes to google one. Problem solved.
The only real problem is that Sega forces good players to carry bad ones all the time for almost all the good content, so the people that can't be assed to take 3 minutes out of their busy afk and lobby chat schedule to check for a good build are clashing with everyone that does make an effort and gets pissed by those people dragging him down.
Few people would care about casuals being casual if they didn't have to carry them and miss out on good results all the time.
As for the new system, how the fuck can anyone get confused by it? You select a couple of weapons and the level of the weapon you grind rises. That's it. At lvl 10/20/30 you unlock the potential and the game tells you go grab some spheres to do it. Collection Sheets are super easy, too. You get progress bars and numbers and example enemies that drop the required weapons.
And again, if you can't tell you can always spend the 5 minutes to check the guides which are easy to find.
Ok, all that aside, Sega is still beyond retarded. I can't fucking believe it. I looked at the frequency bonus of this Scratch. For 5 you get a decent unique item as a nice incentive. For 15 you get a frigging Lucky Rise 1 crepe. And for 25 you get a 40% affix booster.
Pretty sure everyone scratched 25 times for that mini toro suit, it's a unique and fun costume. But there is no point whatsoever to scratch at all for a shitty 100 cube item you can get normally by doing 2-3 eqs. Or bingo.
PS: the rng is, kinda sorta ok. Could be worse at least. I hate stuff like Soul Catalyst or Returner 5 with the retarded 10% base success rate but aside from that it's alright now, with the new grinding system. And even for the old grinding system the success rates are decent now.
We don't lose our gear from trying to upgrade it and the only thing we lose when affixing fails is fodder. And if you spend more meseta you can get most stuff to 100%, too.
why do we need so many walls of text to convey the simple reality that bad players are so because they don't care at all, have their brains turned off whilst playing and the game allows to get away with it
it's already been said, and there really isn't much more to it
hi
Games can provide good challenge and variety without overcomplicated mechanics that you have to google to even understand. People usually might need guides to particular enemies or whatever in such games, but not about basic stuff. Whenever there are some complications, such games convey them in simple terms. Ultimately, game tells you to do things, you do them and it works, and it still can be fun.Originally Posted by Megidolaon
What about PSO2? Let's see... Can a new player tell what DEX does? There aren't any "misses" (thankfully, btw), so how can you see what it does? How can you tell that 7+* weapons make DEX useless? How can you tell that crafting 7+* weapons makes it important again?
What about damage types? There are striking attacks on ranged weapons that use S-ATK, striking attacks on ranged weapons that use R-ATK, striking attacks on tech weapons that use either S or T-ATK... Which multipliers affect what?
I still have no idea which stat and damage type is Rod Shoot, I heard it's S-ATK to tech damage? What I definitely know is that it makes headshot sound like ranged attacks, but doesn't get 2x multiplier for it...? Same applies to Talis.
Element Conversion doesn't work with Jet Boots Gear.
What works for pets and what doesn't? Somehow affixes and mag work, but not weapon or PP Slayer?
Finally, the biggest offender... How can you tell which multipliers affect Zanverse? Seriously... It's not affected by anything on Force tree, but Perfect Keeper and High Time affect it somehow? What kind of weed did they smoke?
*the only thing we lose is fodder* is a massive issue, because affixing cost grows exponentially for every slot. When you upslot things, not only you have more chance to fail in account of higher slot count, but every slot gets bigger penalty too, so making high-slot items from low-slot ones is pain in the ass. If you want one extra affix, cost gets multiple times higher even if it's a "dummy" affix that costs virtually nothing (say, Fever). Want something actually useful? Prepare you anus.
NT grinding is miles better than RNG (and yes, even old system is better than breaking your weapon entirely). But it's not entirely flawless either.
"Grinded chip gives more EXP than ungrinded one" as it is in PSO2es sounds like a cool concept on paper. However, there's no point in grinding a chip for sake of making it a fodder for another chip - a lot of EXP and money are lost this way. And then there are Rappy chips. System is deep, but pointless, because the dumbest way to do it is the best one.
NT grinding derives from that system with exact same flaws, except now your Rappy chips are Emper Embrace weapons... which, unlike Rappy chips, you can buy for Meseta. At least you had to do specific quests, or no Rappy chips for you.
The only piece of "depth" NT grinding has is a choice between "many Lambda, little Meseta" and "many Meseta, little Lambda" when grinding 13*. It only is a thing for 13* because they use a different type of Grinders. Given that you can now grind 13* with 5 Lambdas instead of 350 if you wish so, Lambdas are far easier to stack too, so they are slowly approaching state of regular Grinders. Regular Grinders could be removed from the game altogether, as their supply is simply infinite.
You kinda missed the point. As I said, the obscure mechanics are not nearly that important. If you get a normal weapon dex makes almost no different unless it's required to equip the weapon. And even when you craft we currently have dex so high that if you craft with silva or gold mats your min damage will be 80% or more and again it won't make much of a difference.
It's not like JA is an obscure mechanic. And stuff like element conversion not working with JB gear is something you'll notice within 1 minute of experimenting. Again, if you actually give even the slightest fuck about the game you'll quickly find out all the major mechanics and the obscure stuff you don't know doesn't make a huge difference.
And you also missed the point on fun. Chess rules are real simple. Yet it's incredibly complex. The point isn't that mechanics need to be complicated or unintuitive for a game to be fun, but the game shouldn't be so simple that guides are not important for high level play.
As for fodder, it's a gold sink so what do you expect? The entire point of an online game is keep people grinding. Give them a reason to play (getting stronger) which then gives them a reason to spend money (usually gear related) and then give them chores to do so they can make more money to improve gear to get stronger (tacos, etc.). That's what online rpgs are about. If you don't like the 94% from upslotting Flict, then don't. Then spend more money so you don't need to upslot and can get 100% on everything.
I plan on getting Austere rod soon and I'll 6s without upslotting cause the success rate is too low. And if you don't have the money, too bad for you. Cause what you are missing out when you don't do high end affixing is not a big chunk of damage, but a small, barely noticeable percentage. The amount of money needed for decent gear is really low.
And getting the best gear, best build, etc. only when you make an effort and check guides is common sense. If not, you'd we'd get every little thing shoved up our asses and it would be boring.
A game that is too easy, is not going to be fun. I'm not saying PSO2 is by any stretch of the imagination balanced or free of problems, but complaining about the things it does right or at least it doesn't do horribly bad just makes no sense.
There are more than enough problems worth complaining about.
Just going to throw in my 2c that the affix system is pure fucking evil and is the reason I still have default affixes on my Ideal set and why I will probably never affix my 13*s.
It's too much work for something that I only play for my own amusement. Needing spreadsheets and crap to figure this stuff out is BS. They should have replaced it with something similar to the Candy system a LONG time ago.
As I've said a billion times, not all bad players are bad because they don't care.
There are plenty of people who want to get stronger but cannot or don't want to go through hell to do so.
The game design defines how accessible it is to get stronger.
When a game keeps overcomplicating and blocking people, of course they won't/can't improve.
And you should think to yourself, why don't such players care?
Because they keep winning anyway, there is no need to improve, and improving is a pain up the ass.
Those are also game design issues.
If you make a system complicated, complex, boring or frustrating, don't expect most newbies to use it.
I don't see why these points so difficult for people to grasp.
I know I've already repeated the same points too many times.
I don't think there's much else that I haven't already said.
There will always be bad players.
But do you really think that there'd be so many bad players, if getting stronger was more accessible and comprehensive??
I rest my case.
Back on topic, this scratch sure is boring.
I'm hearing from JP friends that people aren't buying it because they can see the scratch rates are bullshit.
Last edited by TaigaUC; Jun 10, 2016 at 09:49 PM.
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