I'm a Tank with Questions!

[ArcaneTechs]

What in god's name are you two on about? My HuFo is obviously contributing when I cast Zanverse with my Weddle Park, so much that I TOP the parse. For those who don't believe me I have a screenshot of my Weddle Park. Get on my level, you dirty casuals.

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there was a reason i called you out as a joke in that last "now locked" thread with the comment "Lol 1 button Zanverse Im Pro". Even if your just shit posting your terrible for still using Weddle Park with a trash combo like that good bait but your probably serious

Casting Zanverse when nobody else is is still contributing and I'd still consider it "your damage/contributions". To claim someone isn't any good because most of their contributions are Zanverse is quite asinine.

They're more of a liability than they are an asset

[TheFanaticViper]

I think there's also a 12* sword (Techer can use it) that has +150 s-def in it if I recall. ( 'w` )b

Nox sword is compatible TE, and yes i checked on swiki the pot give +150 s-def : の効果(打撃防御+150)および、打撃射撃の威力が上昇する。(18%)

[Sayara]

Lind cray is a better for te sword cuz it also boosts t atk.

[Z-0]

They're more of a liability than they are an asset

Chances are if you're casting Zanverse, you're getting at least 5-6 people in it, meaning you're doing 20%(+ Zanverse boosts)*5~6+, meaning you're easily doing more than you would alone, and generally if you're able to cast Zanverse, you'd do more with Zanverse than any other method, plus Zanverse along with your own attacks is not unfeasible, although optimal Zanverse has almost no time to do other attacks.

Zanverse is a legitimate role in any group, especially if you're spec'ing for it. Of course, the biggest issue in random games is that more than one person might be casting Zanverse, but any Zanverse > No Zanverse, especially for raid boss quests.

I don't really understand this aversion to Zanverse at all.

[Kondibon]

Chances are if you're casting Zanverse, you're getting at least 5-6 people in it, meaning you're doing 20%(+ Zanverse boosts)*5~6+, meaning you're easily doing more than you would alone, and generally if you're able to cast Zanverse, you'd do more with Zanverse than any other method, plus Zanverse along with your own attacks is not unfeasible, although optimal Zanverse has almost no time to do other attacks.

Zanverse is a legitimate role in any group, especially if you're spec'ing for it. Of course, the biggest issue in random games is that more than one person might be casting Zanverse, but any Zanverse > No Zanverse, especially for raid boss quests.

I don't really understand this aversion to Zanverse at all.

I can't speak for anyone else by my problem is honestly how he acts like his build is better than everyone else's because he can use Zanverse.

If we're talking organized groups, then yeah, I would agree with you, A dedicated Zanverse person would be super important, but how much damage you're dealing is directly affected by how much damage everyone else is dealing, so bragging about how high your zanverse hits is like bragging about shifta strike or WB. They're useful, but they aren't gonna be carrying an MPA on their own or anything.

Basically, I personally, don't care that zanverse is his highest source of damage, just that he's bragging and acting superior about a playstyle that relies entirely on other players to even work. You aren't gonna see me bragging about 100 chain torim spirals. :I

EDIT: Also, isn't he Hu/Fo or something. Pretty sure other class combos do Zanverse better, so if that's all he's going to do he might as well use a class combo that's better at it.

[Raujinn]

Why respond to obvious gimmick accounts?

[sparab]

You aren't gonna see me bragging about 100 chain torim spirals. :I

I'd love to see that (if not staged).

[Keilyn]

Chances are if you're casting Zanverse, you're getting at least 5-6 people in it, meaning you're doing 20%(+ Zanverse boosts)*5~6+, meaning you're easily doing more than you would alone, and generally if you're able to cast Zanverse, you'd do more with Zanverse than any other method, plus Zanverse along with your own attacks is not unfeasible, although optimal Zanverse has almost no time to do other attacks.

Zanverse is a legitimate role in any group, especially if you're spec'ing for it. Of course, the biggest issue in random games is that more than one person might be casting Zanverse, but any Zanverse > No Zanverse, especially for raid boss quests.

I don't really understand this aversion to Zanverse at all.

I like math, so basics....

Assume each player's damage is 100, 100 meaning 100% being 1.
Lets say you managed to run a Zanverse Spec on Techer and run with a 20% Wind Damage weapon. This would mean 1.2^3 = 1.728. There are other boosts out there, but I am just being simple about it.
We take the base of zanverse of 20% and this would amplify it to 34.5%

I work as Techer/Bouncer with Hyper Sunrise using Zanverse. I like that Jet Boots can instant-cast zanverse which is good for positioning and fast-casting zanverse at the right time and place.

Now lets say that we use Shifta Strike and we assume the gains in raw ATP an overall +5% stacked on the +10% overall damage from shifta strike.

Now we assume a standard party that just casts zanverse and doesn't know what he or she is doing, and isn't spec'ed for it...

We take four people (one of them being the zanverser) and no buffs.
We have

100
100
100
60 (if the three are in the zanverse and you get the 20%)

This is pretty much horrible.

Now lets talk about what a techer does with the buff to the other player.

105 x 1.1 = 115.5

This means that the techer is responsible (is the reason) why other players are hitting for +15.5% damage, since without the techer the damage would be 100%.

11 x 15.5 = 170.5

Without me lifting up a finger to do anything except buff and healing, this is the damage I am responsible for WITHOUT zanverse. Even if a parser reads 0, my buffs are the reason each player is hitting harder.

Now lets add in the Zanverse. Zanverse in this case will deal 34.5% of total player damage as reapplied Wind Damage. Total meaning the 34.5% of 115.5, which is 39.8475.

The maximum damage would be if 11 players were caught in the field and did their full attacks. That is what Zanversers dream of. This unrealistic situation that happens a small percentage of the time in groups...

11 x 39.3475 = 438.3225

In other words....
The existence of the techer/bouncer, combined with buffs and ONLY working on a Wind Mastery 1 + 2 + Potential of Hyper Sunrise (+20% Wind Damage) thrown in there as a BASIC Example as one can spec for more... allows so that each player hits for 15% more damage, and the techer alone through Zanverse will deal 4.38x more damage than a player without a buffer or zanverser.

Lets be more realistic and say that 6 players are caught in that...then we get 6 x 39.3475 = 236.085... (Still over twice as much)

Now for this to be LEGIT and not OFF-TOPIC of the thread, I need to RELATE THIS TO TANKING!!!
So this is HOW I TANK in Ultimate Amdu.

There are three types of tanks in MMORPGs.

~Tanks that just take the damage while a healer heals the tank and the tank uses aggro skills.
~Tanks that take the damage and mitigate the damage somehow either though evading hits, or countering hits.
~Tanks who can use other players around them to cause health regeneration through redirection..

I am OPTION 3 on this list...

You see.
ALL TANKS have a responsibility...
FIRST and Foremost is to keep ENEMY ATTENTION on the self; to make sure that the enemy is SO ENRAGED and PISSED at you that he along with all of his minions and dead ancestors from beyond the grave can taste your corpse in the afterlife!
SECOND is to make sure that you LIVE...
If the TANK dies, everyone else IS GOING TO DIE...
And So making sure that you not only stay ALIVE but can TANK IT LIKE A MAN (or woman) is the meat and pressure of tanking.
THIRD
The tank CAN NOT move around everywhere. If the tank is ALWAYS MOVING, all enemies are also moving and all of those players that depend on stationary-locked attacks are NOT GOING TO HIT or CONNECT with their attacks. TANKS have to STAND STILL, but PLEASE do not stand on lava!!!! Or you deserve to become kitty litter!
FOURTH
The tank is dependent on all the DPS finishing off the ENEMY before he runs out of 'resources and health' AND the healer runs out of heals. The tank is the one who CALLS when his defenses are going to break, pushing a party into defense-tactics or withdrawal tactics during the battle.

I achieve ALL FOUR as a Techer/Bouncer in Ult Amd. However, ONLY in maps that are THIS predictable does TANKING actually work. YOU NEED BOSSES To tank against and you truly need to make sure that you STAND IN PLACE and let them HIT YOU, and ALL WITHOUT DYING...


So what I do is....

As we attack a boss, I use the Jet Boots to Rapidly do Shifta + Deband... and I turn on the Skills to help increase CRITICAL CHANCE (Stacked with my Shifta Critical makes for a +50% chance to crit) and the skill for PP regeneration...This helps EVERYONE STAY IN THE FIGHT...

So how do I keep ANGA to my face?
I use the JET BOOTS Quick-Cast of Zanverse and then on top of it cast a MEGIVERSE!!!

My build is overspec'ed and PRETTY QUICKLY ANGA Will focus ALL RAGE against me.
So because the players are ANNIHILATING ANGA and Zanverse is doing its Job, Megiverse is keeping me alive from the hits that I sustain, while I stand still and keep buffing and using my own PP Recovery.

LITERALLY I am being hit by laser beams, Trash Mobs + Anga, but as long as Zanverse is in play + using Jet Boots as weapons to damage Anga + Megiverse... What happens is that EACH TIME a player HITS ANGA, my HP is going to go from NEARLY DEAD to Maximum Health. I Stand still...and when EXPERT PLAYERS see the cue that everything in creation is trying to annihilate, they will actually stack around me while I keep Megiverse and Zanverse up....

Done right, Anga will adapt to wind prior to falling apart.

This is a way I can be a support player AND A TANK at the same time (dependent on the other players in the MPA with me for zanverse damage)...

THE DAMAGE from zanverse + Life Drain from Megiverse + My own attacks using Jet Boots is enough for Rage to turn against me, and you will see it when you start taking 2 - 6 hits in a row from Anga and each time your health goes from Nearly Dead or Halfway all the way to FULL from each player actually scoring a hit while both fields remain active.

To those who do not know...
If you case zanverse and then Megiverse. If a player hits an enemy, a percentage of his damage gets redirected as wind damage from my end. His attack will cause life drain and recover you allies health, but the redirection will recover your health too. This means you will get 11 players redirecting damage through you, but also recovering life, and that redirected damage also proc'ing zanverse to heal you. Considering the PP Field and Critical Fields are up, this will ANGER and ENRAGE about any long term boss in this game done right.

Just learn to TANK the hits and learn to NOT DIE while tanking the hits..



This game really isn't a tanking game, but Zanverse/Megiverse tanking
really works in the few areas one can spec for.

Outside of those areas, (which is like 2 - 3% of the game) Tanking is a total failure and outright DPS annihilates just about anything....

[azami]

I like math, so basics....

I wish I could play this game through your eyes.

[ArcaneTechs]

Chances are if you're casting Zanverse, you're getting at least 5-6 people in it, meaning you're doing 20%(+ Zanverse boosts)*5~6+, meaning you're easily doing more than you would alone, and generally if you're able to cast Zanverse, you'd do more with Zanverse than any other method, plus Zanverse along with your own attacks is not unfeasible, although optimal Zanverse has almost no time to do other attacks.

Zanverse is a legitimate role in any group, especially if you're spec'ing for it. Of course, the biggest issue in random games is that more than one person might be casting Zanverse, but any Zanverse > No Zanverse, especially for raid boss quests.

I don't really understand this aversion to Zanverse at all.

I'm referring to your (as the individual player) own damage during the run, not what others are managing to do because your within range of Zanverse but you yourself is doing to throw more damage in that isn't complete crap. Like with our buddy over there thinking that Zanverse+Il Megid= MLG PRO levels of gameplay is beyond stupid, lots of situations where this wouldnt even work especially on stuff like Elder, TD and EFM. Again I'm speaking about the player themself as in let's say your soloing PD, you aren't gonna be stupid enough to think just those 2 Techs will work alone and even if its the case with EFM, Zanverse and Ragrants would be better than someone spamming Zanverse and Il Megid.

These are examples, I'm not looking for "hurr situations bro" I'm saying that ya even though your with a group, what are you "yourself" contributing besides a support Tech in all this? (uhh damage cuz Zanverse damage?) your basically there to leech that you may as well use LR units and a crafted Blue talis and tell people to step their game up. Zanverse lasts long enough to get some of your own PA's/Tech in between everything, it's something you need to stand there, wait for it to be gone then use it again

too long, skipped