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  1. #831

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maninbluejumpsuit View Post
    Suicidal inclinations aside, isn't Fi still capable of unrivaled sustained dps in, and out of LB?
    Isn't Gu's chain trigger against bosses strong enough to keep pace on top of the cooldown reduction despite the lowered damage?
    As I said in my last post, only when you're fighting something that isn't fighting back. Against aggressive enemies, enemies with various "cooldowns" (i.e. times when you cannot attack anything) or enemies that move a lot, Hero easily wins, and most content tends to be that these days.

    So basically Magatsu and enemy stuns, but modern XH has been moving away from walls and into more aggressive enemy territory so that doesn't really hold any weight anymore.

    Deadleon is a good example of an enemy that Hero is much better at fighting, along with Double and Profound Darkness, I'd say Gruzoras is probably better on Hero as well and perhaps Anga (although not sure about this one). Mother is a lot better as Hero because the arms are much easier to get, and during phase 3 you just step her swipes and do counter strikes which are like mega DPS. Deus is also better as Hero because it mobs better during the mobbing part, and against the bosses it can charge Hadoukens when Angeus flies away, and can step through Hunas' attacks to do high damage.

    etc.. etc...
    Last edited by Z-0; Aug 6, 2017 at 02:35 PM.

  2. #832

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    Quote Originally Posted by Z-0 View Post
    As I said in my last post, only when you're fighting something that isn't fighting back. Against aggressive enemies or enemies with various "cooldowns" (i.e. times when you cannot attack anything), Hero easily wins, and most content tends to be that these days.

    So basically Magatsu and enemy stuns, but modern XH has been moving away from walls and into more aggressive enemy territory so that doesn't really hold any weight anymore.
    Fighter very rarely has to worry about dying under LB anymore, so the whole point of losing damage while dodging/blocking doesn't really make sense.

  3. #833
    Garbage-chan Kondibon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saagonsa View Post
    Fighter very rarely has to worry about dying under LB anymore, so the whole point of losing damage while dodging/blocking doesn't really make sense.
    ??? Pretty much everything an XH boss can do can oneshot a LB Fi, unless they stacked tons of hp, and even if they did, you still want to dodge because you aren't gonna have massive hunter up 100% of the time and most boss attacks knock you around, or at least stagger you.

    And most importantly, when hero dodges , it comes back with 100k of greatsword upside the boss's face. :/ Maron is the only other defensive maneuver that hits that hard, and between the damage cap and maron nerfs, hero counters are probably stronger.

  4. #834

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saagonsa View Post
    Fighter very rarely has to worry about dying under LB anymore, so the whole point of losing damage while dodging/blocking doesn't really make sense.
    Even Izane or affixing for HP (a huge mistake IMO) won't make you invincible with LB on. If it can kill any other class, it can kill a limit breaking fighter, no matter how tanky you try to be.

  5. #835
    Garbage-chan Kondibon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TehCubey View Post
    Even Izane or affixing for HP (a huge mistake IMO) won't make you invincible with LB on. If it can kill any other class, it can kill a limit breaking fighter, no matter how tanky you try to be.
    nb4 firesword.

  6. #836

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kondibon View Post
    ??? Pretty much everything an XH boss can do can oneshot a LB Fi, unless they stacked tons of hp, and even if they did, you still want to dodge because you aren't gonna have massive hunter up 100% of the time and most boss attacks knock you around, or at least stagger you.

    And most importantly, when hero dodges , it comes back with 100k of greatsword upside the boss's face. :/ Maron is the only other defensive maneuver that hits that hard, and between the damage cap and maron nerfs, hero counters are probably stronger.
    Nah, you can survive most anything an XH boss can throw at you other than the really big shit (deus split, app's laser in mother, etc) as long as you have some good HP (firesword level is obviously overkill, however).

    Quote Originally Posted by TehCubey View Post
    Even Izane or affixing for HP (a huge mistake IMO) won't make you invincible with LB on. If it can kill any other class, it can kill a limit breaking fighter, no matter how tanky you try to be.
    How is using Izane or affixing a bit of HP "a huge mistake?" This isn't EP3 anymore, we have units that can do far better things than saiki ever could.

  7. #837
    Garbage-chan Kondibon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saagonsa View Post
    Nah, you can survive most anything an XH boss can throw at you other than the really big shit (deus split, app's laser in mother, etc) as long as you have some good HP (firesword level is obviously overkill, however).
    I still find it hard to believe you can just never dodge anything and be fine...

    Quote Originally Posted by Saagonsa View Post
    How is using Izane or affixing a bit of HP "a huge mistake?" This isn't EP3 anymore, we have units that can do far better things than saiki ever could.
    Because you need pp too? If we're talking about DPS uptime having less PP is going to be a factor to consider.

    EDIT: especially when you consider how strong hero's normal attacks are for all 3 weapons compared to fighter.
    Last edited by Kondibon; Aug 6, 2017 at 04:18 PM.

  8. #838

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kondibon View Post
    I still find it hard to believe you can just never dodge anything and be fine...

    Because you need pp too? If we're talking about DPS uptime having less PP is going to be a factor to consider.

    EDIT: especially when you consider how strong hero's normal attacks are for all 3 weapons compared to fighter.
    If there's a techer around I have 1676HP (419 in LB) with my daggers out, and 1701HP (425 in LB) with my knux out. If I take PP drink (which there's no reason not to) I have 206PP with daggers and 220PP with knux. It's really not an either-or thing anymore.

    Also at least for sword, it's normals are actually really bad for getting PP back. It only gains 11pp per combo, and each combo takes over a second to do. You'd need to use aura bullet to regen pp fast with hero while still attacking, and that's much lower dps.

  9. #839

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    A pack of heroes, in pug, doing mining 3 that barely even use AIS and not a single lazor (we seem to forget we have AIS and lazors) even at final wave, still S rank. So get over it guys, use Hero.



  10. #840

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saagonsa View Post
    How is using Izane or affixing a bit of HP "a huge mistake?" This isn't EP3 anymore, we have units that can do far better things than saiki ever could.
    It's true, they are called Austere.

    Also izane is fine if you have them (good luck with drops!), it's going for a HP build I have issues with. I don't mean a bit of HP. I mean going full Firesword.

    What happens then is you sacrifice so much s-atk and pp just to be able to survive with LB that you end up doing less damage with LB on than you'd do without it if you went with normal affixes.

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