Is SEGA being desperate now?

[KatsuraJun]

The problem is the enemies don't do damage in the first place then all that shit is irrelevant. As it is, getting hit barely matters in any content. It's like if failing a mechanic could be healed off with a Medica II in XIV, then the mechanics are irrelevant because you're not actually punished for failing them.

This boosted content is actually killing people for getting hit and these complaints more or less boil down to "why am I dying for getting hit."

Allowing for some additional zoom out capability with the camera might be a good idea, but there's nothing wrong with the damage values. This is what it takes to actually kill players in PSO2, any less and we're back to the "let me just ignore everything and only focus on vaporizing the boss before it can physically act" gameplay.



As for your suggestions, less hitstun is not even an applicable thing to bosses which are never designed to be stunnable outside of scripted occurrences nowadays.

I'm assuming you think a stacking HP cut is like a vuln stack in XIV, but it's not, because it's completely is irrelevant unless it cuts your HP immediately to extremely low levels (like 50%) off the first one or two hits, which would end up being more or less the same as the boosted situation we have now.

Otherwise, it takes too many hits to matter unless the player is intentionally getting hit. It's not the same as a vuln stack where you end up taking tons of unavoidable damage that will easily kill you - all damage is avoidable in PSO2 because everyone has multiple ways to nullify damage.

[Dark Mits]

Elaborate then: what does that add to the game? Does it make it more fun somehow? Drop the hipster crap and make a proper point.

It adds the long-requested "hard content" that the playerbase (at least here on the forums) has been asking for.

How can you make a video game harder?
-> Reduce the number of mistakes the player has to make in a certain timeframe and still succeed
-> Require quicker actions
-> Require more actions in the same timeframe
-> Require monitoring of more stuff going on at the same time.
-> Challenge the player's stamina

That's what the current test does.
1) It gives less room for mistakes (you now die in 1-2 hits as you say when you needed 4-5 before assuming there were no hp restoration at all).
2) For players to make less mistakes, it means that they need to react quicker to oncoming danger. Before we could just ignore it or even stay in the area of effect. So now we need to be quicker.
3) So since we need to be quicker, it also means that we need to perform more actions.
4) And since enemies do not die so quickly, each enemy has more time in its disposal to use abilities. So we have to monitor more AoEs and patterns. We also have to check the green bar on the bottom left too now, not just the middle of the screen and the loli chat.
5) And the increased hp also means that the players need to maintain their attention span for a longer time.

Also congratulations on affixing a grand total of... 100 hp more than me? I use austere + union that comes with 265 hp innately and almost 10% striking, ranged, and tech damage reduction, and I still find 1k+ hits from Anga in ult Amd very stupid. How much HP do you actually have anyway? Can't be much more than anyone else if you're putting a whopping +50hp on each of your unit affixes.

Just hp alone is not the only measure of a player's effective hp. It's also modifiers to incoming damage. Someone with All Resist III on every equipment slot has extra 12% reduced damage taken. What hits you for 1000 would hit me for 880 assuming everything else equal.

You have to realize that this current test of Sega, should it find its way in a form or another in the future, would change the meta. The current meta says "100% in full offense. Take a defensive ability only if a more offensive one is behind it".

The other thing is, ever since the beginning of this game, all these upgraded modes ever amounted to be were more HP and damage, but never made the game any harder. It just made for bigger HP sponges that we stunlocked to death. If oodans started hitting people for 2k damage tomorrow, would that make this game any harder?

That's Sega's fault, not because they can't come up with new mechanics (or copy them from other games), but because they were (probably) afraid that the playerbase which was used to 100% success with 0 effort would throw a shitstorm if the game suddenly requested something more than afk zerging.

Also funny that you bring up Zigmorde's HP cut; what would be a way to emulate 100% enemy damage increase without changing enemy damage? Answer: Cutting player HP by 50%. Zigmorde's HP cut mechanic is mechanically the same as having increased enemy damage by the inverse of the % it cut your hp with (20% reduction is the same as changing all enemy damage by 25% for example). The difference is that HP cut mechanic also increases the relative effectiveness of hp recovery options, whereas enemy damage increase doesn't. So in fact, Zigmorde's HP cut mechanic is MORE player unfriendly than directly increasing enemy damage.


And to cut this long post again, as KatsuraJun says, what's the point of introducing mechanics if the players cheese through them? Consider Burn and Poison for example: Deal a very small % of a player's current hp as damage per Xsec. Does anyone pay attention to it outside of Anti-ing it for PP recovery? No, because it's effect is too low for us to care. But Stun? Yes we pay attention to it. Because it interrupts our rotation and therefore our output.

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

The problem is the enemies don't do damage in the first place then all that shit is irrelevant.

Those boosted skull soldiers hit for... 400-500 each. When they were relentless, and came in a mob, I'd say they were a legit, and fair threat.

Allowing for some additional zoom out capability with the camera might be a good idea, but there's nothing wrong with the damage values. This is what it takes to actually kill players in PSO2, any less and we're back to the "let me just ignore everything and only focus on vaporizing the boss before it can physically act" gameplay.

You're suggesting the game can only go between two extremes of either never dying/not being tangibly punished for being hit, and near-one shots.

I'm thinking of better solutions that results in legitimate threats, and fair punishments for getting hit instead of just having the game become Devil May Cry heaven or hell mode.

As for your suggestions, less hitstun is not even an applicable thing to bosses which are never designed to be stunnable outside of scripted occurrences nowadays.

I know that. That was specifically for small enemies. Hitstunning them to death is one of the main reasons why N-XH doesn't feel very different despite all the number changes, and why bigger numbers and HP in small fry won't matter in whatever difficulty is next unless something changes.

I'm assuming you think a stacking HP cut is like a vuln stack in XIV,

No. I'd rather compare it to the suppuration (or however it is spelled) debuff that cuts max HP.

but it's not, because it's completely is irrelevant unless it cuts your HP immediately to extremely low levels (like 50%) off the first one or two hits, which would end up being more or less the same as the boosted situation we have now. Otherwise, it takes too many hits to matter unless the player is intentionally getting hit. It's not the same as a vuln stack where you end up taking tons of unavoidable damage that will easily kill you - all damage is avoidable in PSO2 because everyone has multiple ways to nullify damage.

If it stacked slower, was unremovable like I suggested, and decay slowly over time, it would be entirely relevant against a boss if people get hit too much.
Lets say: 10% cut a hit. Get hit 4-5 times in a fairly short window by certain attacks, and you're one or two shot-able. Automate and megiverse won't fix it.

Want specific attacks to be more punishing for being hit? make them inflict a 20% cut or something. Play with the %s all you want.

If people use the tools to avoid damage, well congratulations, they won't die to it. Working as intended. It will:
-punish people for getting hit
-doesn't entirely invalidate healing while making players mortal at the same time
-you don't have to one shot players out of the gate to make the enemy a threat.

That's the general idea behind my suggestion.Cranking more enemy attacks to hit for 1k+ and saying 'the game is fixed now' is lazy. The game should be made more difficult through enemy aggression, and cutting back the potency of stuff like automate making players pseudo-invincible. Not just one-shots, which pretty much addresses automate-tier healing power in the laziest way possible. I'd rather see something like 'if you get hit X amount of times, no matter what healing you have, you will drop on the next hit'.

[echofaith]

I guess the ideal scenario would be to add a new separate difficulty. Make it share same drop pool as XH, but better rates and CF gain. You could steamroll EQS in XH for a safe but slower method, or risk it with the new difficulty, but faster progression. Depending on the reward:effort ratio, it may keep both difficulties being played constantly. I know for sure I would alternate between both, as I am mostly a casual, but it does get boring doing the same EQ over and over with minimal difficulty. It would make hardcore players happy while also rewarding those willing to go the extra mile, and it make those who want to keep it simple happy too.

[morkie]

Sega must have

14* Series for this new difficulty

[KatsuraJun]

Those boosted skull soldiers hit for... 400-500 each. When they were relentless, and came in a mob, I'd say they were a legit, and fair threat.

Seriously? Those things were cannon fodder, and I'd be embarrassed if I died to them, all I noticed was that they were slightly harder to kill. They weren't fair, they were a joke and just annoying. Mind you, I'm not advocating that boosted normal mobs are necessarily a good idea, only bosses.

I know that. That was specifically for small enemies. Hitstunning them to death is one of the main reasons why N-XH doesn't feel very different despite all the number changes, and why bigger numbers and HP in small fry won't matter in whatever difficulty is next unless something changes.

Small enemies just aren't going to ever be difficult in this game, hitstun or not I feel. It disrupts of the flow if it's anything tougher than those centaur angels which were just the right amount of annoying in the 1-4 LQ. I don't think it's a big deal anyway, it's not like trash packs are particularly exciting in XIV and PSO2's trash mobs are at least more engaging than that.

If it stacked slower, was unremovable like I suggested, and decay slowly over time, it would be entirely relevant against a boss if people get hit too much.
Lets say: 10% cut a hit. Get hit 4-5 times in a fairly short window by certain attacks, and you're one or two shot-able. Automate and megiverse won't fix it.

4-5 hits is how many I take over the entire course of an average deus while only half paying attention because it's such a joke of an EQ normally, it would be completely and utterly irrelevant. Nevermind the existence of classes like Hero, Gunner, and Fighter which are by design never supposed to get hit in order to maintain Hero Boost/Showtime/LB, this would do absolutely nothing to make the game harder except for the most incompetent of players. The way the classes are put together in this game, you are not supposed to get hit, ever, with the small exception of a few classes. Giving 4-5 hit leeway that wears off over a short time is the same as not having anything at all, which is why I said it'd need to stack to punishing levels within a couple of hits - which would end up being more or less the same as what we have now.

That's the general idea behind my suggestion.Cranking more enemy attacks to hit for 1k+ and saying 'the game is fixed now' is lazy. The game should be made more difficult through enemy aggression, and cutting back the potency of stuff like automate making players pseudo-invincible. Not just one-shots, which pretty much addresses automate-tier healing power in the laziest way possible. I'd rather see something like 'if you get hit X amount of times, no matter what healing you have, you will drop on the next hit'.

I disagree. The existence of automate is to negate the effect of small attacks like the little light bolts for the less agile classes like Hunter or Ranger, allowing them to charge their powerful attacks while shrugging off the small hits while not losing momentum by being forced to heal. The problem is that everything is a small hit right now that can barely do over half your health, even on the slow attacks that are supposed to be punishing. Automate is fine, the problem is that everything in the game unboosted is basically a small attack. And even if you nerf automate, Megiverse and Resta still exist. The fact is is that healing outpaces damage taken in this game, but the thing that's poorly designed isn't the healing (which in a fast paced action game like this should be fast and effective), it's the damage we're taking.

[GHNeko]

You absolutely do not need a techer in boosted ult amd like you used to need a ranger in Elder/Loser/Magatsu. It makes things easier obviously, but that's not even close to a fair comparison.

No, you don't need a Te in boosted UQ, but people even remotely pushing in the direction of "well maybe you shouldn't gear for only attack/pp even though this has been the meta for the game for the past 5 years" and "bring a Te main if you want to survive attacks that are clearly too strong for the average defense of a super majority of the end-game players that follow the meta in terms of gearing" is basically the starting point for requiring Te to have decent runs.

You don't have to be a genius to extrapolate this.

Disregarding the current state of the meta in regards to gearing simply to make a counter point of "stop gearing for attack and gear for defense, and if you don't want to do that; bring a Te" is in the same ball park because on one side of that statement, you're advocating for an extremely expensive and frustrating paradigm shift in gear that will affect basically every mid-tier to high tier end-game player OOOOR the more more sane alternative of "Bring a Te main whereever you go."

Just because Sega boosted the attack power of UQ enemies a little too much? A limited time versin of UQ mind you. That we have no clue if its going to be the future norm or not. Because who knows if SEGA finds that this was a bit too much and opts for the route (again) of making enemies more of an HP Sponge like they did in EP3 and EP4 when it came to Kuron/Earth enemies?

smh

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

Giving 4-5 hit leeway is the same as not having anything at all

1: No. There are people that can get hit 10+ times with automate and be in 0 danger. My suggestion would get those people KOed in ~half as many hits and no amount of healing will save them from the result of so many mistakes.
2: This is why I said my suggestion is open to playing with the %s. Think 10% cut per hit isnt punishing enough? Give it a few more % per stack.

which is why I said it'd need to stack to punishing levels within a couple of hits - which would end up being more or less the same as what we have now.

What we have now against some enemies in Ult amd is a situation where you either get one shot, or just back off and heal to full, and try again like usual. So you just want more of that, and call it 'difficulty'?

I don't know about you, but it feels more cheap than difficult getting hit for 1200 on random quick attacks from the likes of boosted ult Anga.
Or if the player doesn't get one shot, it's back to automate/megiverse making people nearly invincible, which you'd probably complain about since it more or less gets rid of the 'difficulty', and it's just business as usual, but with slightly higher numbers.
Then what? Ask for more enemy damage to actually one shot players so situations like like i described in the first sentence happen more?

If this isn't what you want, or how you see things, what do you suggest then?

PS: Why aren't you asking for more bosses that fight like gruzoras, and deadlion instead of asking for things to just hit us stupidly hard?

[GHNeko]

Also, I'd like to add

making the game more punishing for players who have MH, Megiverse, IW/NGU, and AM just because they're inherently too tanky

just makes builds like FoFi, FiBo, FiBr, GuFi, etc even more frustrating.

You know? The completely viable builds that dont rely on tanking skills? The ones that rely on player skill to compensate for the lack of safety while rewarding them with extra power?

Yeah. The game is littered enough with hitboxes in its current state. Let's not make random swipes that are fast, but not intended to kill, start killing out of the blue.

Enemy attack boosts to stupid levels isn't okay. It's fine for temporary content, but not as the standard.

[tsundere4you]

FFXIV is an RPG that was designed by removing as many choices the player can make as possible. Every single weapon, shield, head, body, hands, waist, legs and feet equipment slot has VIT on it. If you enter an instance you are guaranteed to have a minimum amount of HP that you cannot lower. You have no choice in this matter. The game does not allow you to exchange VIT on your weapon or armour for more STR. Enemy strength in terms of damage output dealt is balanced around this minimum item level.

In PSO2 you do have a choice. You can do a glass cannon build but your HP will be lower than what the devs expected when deciding the amount of damage the enemies will deal. Sega could have forbidden players to enter ult amdu if they didn't have a minimum of 1.2k HP similar to how you need a minimum item level to enter instances in FFXIV. However Sega likes to give players options, so if you want to enter with 700 HP they won't stop you. Many can make this work as should be evident by the number of no damage runs that have been done. Sega is completely in the right to allow players this option if they are capable.

Complaining that increasing damage from enemies doesn't make the game harder or is cheap or whatever is irrelevant. All games have some set damage value the enemies will deal that is based around the expected HP of the player. This game, being an RPG that allows choices in how you allocate your stats, means that if you are getting your ass kicked because you decided to go full glass cannon, then you made a poor choice and should probably rethink that choice. You have options, use them.

The game also has to be balanced around people who stack defensive stats. Arguing that enemies shouldn't be dealing more than 500 HP per hit like they have been thus far because that suits your particular glass cannon build just fine is ridiculous. In any RPG worth its salt you tailor your equipment to the situation at hand. The only way these complaints would be valid is if there were no options left to increase survivability and that's most certainly not true.