What do you want EP6 to get right?

[Golgotha]

Theres lvl85 enemies that hit for over 700 sometimes, so Its more of a stagnant progression than anything else probably.
Current pso2 direction is also listening to players so closely that they simply make what they ask for, like heres lbi skill for example.

The action element and skill variance has been slowly disappearing from PSO2. Lots of best clears of your random TA-like are concentrated mainly on removing the need to dodge and then just putting yourself in the right place for maximum AoE and just the AI, to simplify. Similarly several classes reach their peak DPS by just concentrating on attacking with 0 thought in defense.

More importantly slight roles PSO2 from time to time had resulted from actual pronounced class differences and were conductive to action combat, more so that letting every player also tank (as in take a whole lot of red numbers to the face, not gather aggro and hold it) damage without losing DPS. Classes had different AoE capabilities that weren't as spammy, different mobility and different ability to dodge enemies and keep attacking. Sega is currently trying too much to homogenize everything which results in even harsher class balance feedback because OP classes overwrite the usefulness of nearly everything, instead of you still having some leeway cause other class is made for something else.

I dunno if anything there is disappearing, it was never not the focus on dps. You would either collapse on 3panther forest extreme quest, or you just stunlock all three of them and finish it in a few seconds.

Thats how action and rpg mechanics will always compete with each other. The difference between building yourself into a tank and dodging is that the dodging efficiency relies purely on how player performs. Putting up gear check as more accessible and competitive form of defence would devalue the dodging mechanics and reduce reason to make different enemy attacks as well. I'd also argue that adding even more element and weapontype based factors on top of breaking parts and aiming at weak points would add a lot of rigidity to gameplay and make it much less fluid so to accomodate all different playstyles.

Despite that RPGsystems-wise you have 3 defences and 6 elements, you can't exactly build around specific protections in pso2, and also it makes no sense to do so, because you ultimately need to fight everything. Theres thunder-only enemies, but its not like you have the insulation armor ready in the bag, outside of status removal theres no "protection from lightning" buffs to throw in emergency or anything. Around the baseline you just stack def really.
I mean, it was designed like that from the beginning, its a bit to late to rotate entire game around closer attention to how damage calculation resolves. And I dunno if it would really come out as fun as it sounds. Why learn how to fight Aratron if you are well-geared against lightning and strike attack?

Theres a lot of existing stuff obscured too, but we are not getting anything in this field as long as they leaving artifacts like a-type launcher unattended just because vocal players don't pay attention to it. Its a bigger and more fundamental problem to me that CORE elements don't work or just abandoned rather that game meta isn't entirely something else, deeper or skill based whatever.

[vantpers]

Amazingly in EP2 you didn't have any class if I remember correctly that could be as tanky as lots of melee and even Ranged classes now without having penalized damage.

Also tanking in action game shouldn't just about stacking resist. A bit of HP to be more comfortable but more importantly the ability to avoid damage easier. Not only in timing but also in things like Deus in Hunar form, who has a lingering hitbox that can't be stepped through but can be easily parried, and also the ability to deal damage while avoiding damage. We should precisely go less into stat differences based on how much meseta you put in gear and more, and more into class and tree choices causing differences.

[KatsuraJun]

Classes had different AoE capabilities that weren't as spammy,

People literally used to put 3 of the same PA on each line of their palette because spamming is all people did.
We went through months of people spamming shit like ilmegid, shunka, infintiy fire, etc.

different mobility

Ah yes, I too enjoyed the difference in mobility between classes, such as impotently chasing after mob spawns in TD as a Hu main. Nah, I think things are better now.

[SteveCZ]

People put 3 of the same PA in some of their palettes back then isn't necessarily for spamming, but because the PAs need to be done in different orders in different situations. You can't do that in a single "combo" palette like we are now. Not to mention that earlier episodes before eps 3, there are only a good chunk of PAs and techs that are literally useful if you want to clear things fast, with anything else as utility (usually bound to TA in the end) making the 2 button mode even more useless in terms of making variative combo. It's also especially troubling for classes that have more weapons and more specialized potentials. These are reasons why the 2 button mode was a flaw.

Now, you can call PAs in random order with 3 button mode, there is no reason for same PA order anymore, and PAs are getting even more balanced than ever before since episode 3 started, making variative combo possible with more weapon palettes available for more different weapons, not just combo anymore. So things are better now in that case.

[KatsuraJun]

That's true in some cases, but there's absolutely cases where you could use the 2button combo palette, like boss DPS rotations.

Of course, nobody did that and just spammed the same thing repeatedly.

[Golgotha]

Amazingly in EP2 you didn't have any class if I remember correctly that could be as tanky as lots of melee and even Ranged classes now without having penalized damage.

Also tanking in action game shouldn't just about stacking resist. A bit of HP to be more comfortable but more importantly the ability to avoid damage easier. Not only in timing but also in things like Deus in Hunar form, who has a lingering hitbox that can't be stepped through but can be easily parried, and also the ability to deal damage while avoiding damage. We should precisely go less into stat differences based on how much meseta you put in gear and more, and more into class and tree choices causing differences.

In ep2 you also had no specific solo challenges to play with and no death mixer quests with horde of enemies spinning their unobvious hitboxes around all at once, as youre bombarded by 16 corrupt cores. All those apostle dragons and phalegs might require some hp and def compensation.

I'm still not exactly sure what you think this game "should" be, so far it looks like you want to kite around the boss, because it should be the only way to kill it. But that maybe won't benefit the game?

I would understand Bouncer tree having a choice between broader support aoe effects and pbf spreading more buffs, for example. Or hunter choosing between more countering opportunities versus extra damage boosts for taking hits more often. Do you mean something like this? It wouldn't require reinventing the wheel and could be actually liberating to experiment with, right? Its kinda stupid to hope for such overhaul, but yeah, this is something I'd find interesting

[vantpers]

In ep2 you also had no specific solo challenges to play with and no death mixer quests with horde of enemies spinning their unobvious hitboxes around all at once, as youre bombarded by 16 corrupt cores. All those apostle dragons and phalegs might require some hp and def compensation.

I'm still not exactly sure what you think this game "should" be, so far it looks like you want to kite around the boss, because it should be the only way to kill it. But that maybe won't benefit the game?

I would understand Bouncer tree having a choice between broader support aoe effects and pbf spreading more buffs, for example. Or hunter choosing between more countering opportunities versus extra damage boosts for taking hits more often. Do you mean something like this? It wouldn't require reinventing the wheel and could be actually liberating to experiment with, right? Its kinda stupid to hope for such overhaul, but yeah, this is something I'd find interesting

EP2 had Aculpus pre nerf. It destroyed enough butts to have them nerfed. Yes there is increase in aggressiveness from EP2 onward, but there is also disappointing solutions to them. Instead of forcing some sort of cooperation and even non-damage oriented solutions, we just gave all the defense to damage solutions. Also Phaleg is simple, just dodge or guard, not really as crazy as some mulit boss rooms unless in a multiboss rooms herself. Even buffed Chrome is still just a boss that hits hard.

Perfectly, I just want actually different playstyles. Stuff like first latest solo XQ stage. You would think it's pretty damn impressive that Hunter can just dive into the instakilling nuke Deus does, and it's totally worth how little damage it usually does because now he has his strongest damage out during the most dangerous moment. But it's still not full satisfaction given you even had Fighter just using Never Give Up there, or he could just keep doing damage that wasn't that much lower before the newest Sword buff by just using Slow Fighter Action Gear Experience spam or Deadly Circle, and that's with 100% less effort. Similar solutions could be found on too many classes. Hunter's defensive role has been thoroughly wasted because as much as some EP4 LQs required something tanky to take on multiple bosses solo, Sega balanced it awful enough that you could make a tanky Fighter with twice the DPS compared to Hunter. What's worse similar tactics were mostly based on Automated Halfline or lifeleech, and not quite engaging.

In the end Hunter's parry bonuses and Charge Parrying mechanics that were supposed to let him handle as high aggro as he wants while outputting DPS were wasted because everyone else could already handle high aggro with same or less effort depending on how many other non weapon related defensive skills you took. That's also without paying the DPS penalty for having Charge Parrying. Which put Hunter deep into low tiers in the game. The basic system in my posts would be supposed to be a class that works under aggro well and class that is risky and has to limit DPS under aggro. Both dodge, both parry, both play action combat, but they prefer dealing damage different ways with neither being the wrong class, with natural synergy of one wanting to take the other's aggro, and taking aggro happens in the game even right now.

My point about skill tree differences was also about it. Because those are supposed to be class synergies and letting players have too much HP coming from units only resulted in Fighter domination in EP4, and more importantly too little choice and too much grinding because with enough money every class could be beefy enough.

Also EP3 had plenty of uses for combo rotation. Anything with Fighter in it wanted at least a 2 PA combo. Even in EP2 you needed for example access to both Guilty Break, Ride Slasher, Over End, and Rising Edge, maybe Sonic Arrow too.

[Kilich]

Yes, more playstyles would be great. But to have multiple playstyles you need to make classes play differently on a mechanical level with drawbacks for versatility. So, probably they should make skill points highly limited again and add more interesting things to skill tree, potentials and item sets so that the damage race becomes a three way between it, defense and utility. Make more important skills main class only too, like Iron Will and Automates, or split and weaken them. Katana Combat losing its invul as sub class is a good example.

And you need content that is not a 'death mixer that spits interrupts, knockdowns, rushes/leaps and general hard to avoid damage. Preferably where you have to dodge attacks/just guard them, unless you are hunter guard stance main that lives off counter attacks, or w/e.
Then again, I might just go back to other games, depending on Ep6, that one is more likely.

Just letting off some steam, from constantly getting Darker Nest in TAs and Apostolo in Run x dailies.

[KatsuraJun]

Also EP3 had plenty of uses for combo rotation. Anything with Fighter in it wanted at least a 2 PA combo. Even in EP2 you needed for example access to both Guilty Break, Ride Slasher, Over End, and Rising Edge, maybe Sonic Arrow too.

Yes, people started comboing on fi and hu (which subclassed fi) once it was literally forced on them through what is one of the most efficient damage buff in the tree.

And even then I remember plenty of people ignoring it and continuing to spam the same move repeatedly because it was lower effort and still passably effective.

In the end Hunter's parry bonuses and Charge Parrying mechanics that were supposed to let him handle as high aggro as he wants while outputting DPS were wasted because everyone else could already handle high aggro with same or less effort depending on how many other non weapon related defensive skills you took. That's also without paying the DPS penalty for having Charge Parrying. Which put Hunter deep into low tiers in the game.

That has absolutely nothing to do with why Hu is shit as a mainclass. Hunter weapons are fucking clunky, dependent on multiple band-aids over an inherently flawed concept called gear, (sword) or ridiculously pp inefficient, (partizan) or just straight up forgotten (wired lance) Their mobility was absolute dogshit in the past despite being a class that depends heavily on sticking on their target, depending on partizan (again, absolutely destroying your pp bar) or Guilty Break, which is more feasable now that they've added two ways to maintain gear that should have been there from the start. As I mentioned earlier, the entire gear system for sword in particular was flawed from the get go, requiring you to maintain 3 levels of gear just to exist on the same playing field as other classes because your 0-gear PAs like Rising Edge were fucking god awful.

And even if you get past all that? Their damage is mediocre. It's got nothing to do with defenses. Even if every other class in the game was a glass cannon except Hunter, they'd still be bad unless you just straight up removed the ability to iframe on everyone else or added some kind of unavoidable damage, and then it just wouldn't be PSO2 anymore, it'd just be a typical trinity MMO. Fighter has always taken a dump on Hunter as a melee, even before it had a ways to cheat dying in Limit Break and stack a million hp, because it's mobile and does more damage, and if you just popped a few points in step dodge, you could deal with everything well enough anyway.

In fact, Hunter nowadays is more playable now than in the past. With all the mobility buffs, gear bandaids and sacbite type 0, at least I can hit things in EQBQ before a fucking force snipes it out from under my nose like TD.

Mind you, I'm not disagreeing that specific class specializations are disappearing from PSO2 (like gunner having a weakness against large groups of enemies previously, when now it can do anything) but this is absolutely not why Hunter sucks. Hunter sucked way before that.

[SteveCZ]

Yes, people started comboing on fi and hu (which subclassed fi) once it was literally forced on them through what is one of the most efficient damage buff in the tree.

And even then I remember plenty of people ignoring it and continuing to spam the same move repeatedly because it was lower effort and still passably effective.

Yup, when Tech Arts JA Bonus was introduced. What follows after are Fighter's shiny days ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)..... *cough* including deadly circle *cough* LOL.