Armada of Demise Expert Mode Requirements

[SteveCZ]

Because that would be counterproductive to the actual problem, which led Sega to implement a wrong approach in solving it; players should not be shown how to clear a specific challenge, they should be shown how to improve themselves globally in whatever challenge may be implemented.

A guide for current Expert requirements is, like people have said, "cheesing" and "a cheat sheet". The correct approach would be to teach people how to measure if a piece of equipment is an upgrade or not without telling them what the optimal is, how to check if a different build is more effective or not without telling them what the meta is, how to recognize when to use a long range vs short range ability, how to recognize when to burst vs when to sustain, how to recognize when to use long-cast animation vs. short-cast etc.

This is not an educational institution, this is a game. It is meant to be solved, not the game solving it for you. I've been telling for three times now, many people are willing to help, regardless of how thick-headed some players are, but nobody is even bother asking about how to deal with the quests.

The reality is this expert requirement will be around for quite long. I'm just trying to keep some people's feet on the ground here when they keep trying to fly alone with non-existent wings when there's nothing to fly to, just a path ahead with a road block to break wishing it should never exist.

If you wish them to stay complaining over the requirement for I don't know until when, then be my guest, while all I wish is just they keep trying to improve and never give up, cause I believe they can pass this expert requirement and be done with it. Pick your side.

Edit: Apparently Zephyrion has opened such thread by the time of this post being written. Well, thank goodness for him to do that (as I stated before here, I'm lazy to make one). Anyway I'm done here.

[MrYukito]

The really funny thing about this is that my original post was not intended to be an complaint about the expert mode requirements (which I've been actively working on passing myself, and indeed passed one of them last night!) but rather I was trying to express a concern about the way the EQ is structured and a feeling that it was unfairly stacked against those without expert.

The even more funny thing is that having done the EQ a few mote times since and gotten some better quality parties (even in non-expert, yes), I've come to the conclusion that I was wrong about my original concerns - the EQ is fine as it is.

And yet the argument over the expert matching conditions rages on. This doesn't surprise me, honestly, because I think the whole expert match concept is flawed (and the implementation even more so), but I was really not trying to start something like this!

You realize that the EQ structure has been very much in favor of Expert players since the game launched? Only quests like CCC, Guides, Persona, and other raid style bosses are "equal" to both sets of players.

Every other EQ is designed around doing it as much as possible in the time alotted to maximize your chances of getting rares, which naturally favors expert players.

You only made the thread when you weren't in Expert MMing anymore and weren't getting the same quality that you were getting before, which tells me that the complaint wasn't the EQ itself, but that your QoL was lowered due to not being in Expert. If you had been in Expert MMing all along, would you have even made this thread?

And finally, there is no problem with expert MMing being in the game. It allows people who care enough about the game to have an easy way to play with others like them and not be dumpstered by the RNG of getting matched with people who struggle to clear even a single MPA.

When CCC and Dark Demolisher launched, I hadn't upped my Expert MMing. I remember failing 3 attempts at Dark Demolisher 3 different times in a row due to the other 3 people in my party dying. When I redid the expert reqs, that changed instantly.

How is it better that players good enough to rarely die get thrown in with randoms that completely prevent the expert from getting rewards for their work due to how bad the non-experts are?

[ArcaneTechs]

You realize that the EQ structure has been very much in favor of Expert players since the game launched? Only quests like CCC, Guides, Persona, and other raid style bosses are "equal" to both sets of players.

Every other EQ is designed around doing it as much as possible in the time alotted to maximize your chances of getting rares, which naturally favors expert players.

You only made the thread when you weren't in Expert MMing anymore and weren't getting the same quality that you were getting before, which tells me that the complaint wasn't the EQ itself, but that your QoL was lowered due to not being in Expert. If you had been in Expert MMing all along, would you have even made this thread?

And finally, there is no problem with expert MMing being in the game. It allows people who care enough about the game to have an easy way to play with others like them and not be dumpstered by the RNG of getting matched with people who struggle to clear even a single MPA.

When CCC and Dark Demolisher launched, I hadn't upped my Expert MMing. I remember failing 3 attempts at Dark Demolisher 3 different times in a row due to the other 3 people in my party dying. When I redid the expert reqs, that changed instantly.

How is it better that players good enough to rarely die get thrown in with randoms that completely prevent the expert from getting rewards for their work due to how bad the non-experts are?

why you guys also make this random assumption that every piece of content that gets released is solely based around Expert Players? because if this was remotely the case you people without the Expert Title would never clear said content or get any of its loot, you'd just be wasting your time for 30mins a session in attempts to finish. Sega doesn't design content to be unclearable, you guys act like that dont know that they need a clear balance for Casual vs Expert in content regardless if one or the other can do more runs or clear it quicker.

If your runs arent going good, who do you have to blame? certainly not Sega or Expert Players thats for sure

[Flatflyer]

I think that issue about being "geared for expert" tends to stem more from the concept of repeatable EQs in the first place.

Because expert runs generally tend to be faster, you get effectively more drops per EQ that is repeatable.

as much as people dislike limiting EQ runs, I feel like it does ultimately make it feel less like "expert is required" to get a "good" run of an EQ, meaning people will be less likely to complain about it.

in a way this has been somewhat addressed with past seasonal EQs where they have a set time limit and you just collect points as you go on, it effectively forces expert and non-expert to have the same amount of runs overall (quality varying, but you cant really help that).

[vantpers]

Limit EQ runs is both better and worse. Better because many players don't need to hurry, and worse because people will just jump ships to get their fix of multiple runs. What's worse jumping ship results in more expert bitching because your ability to have multiple TMPAs is limited, since you're hopping ships, and getting more runs is not only limited to good players, but good players that have multiple characters on multiple ships, which to benefit the most they use to transfer rares between one another using AC, making it more P2W.

[Dark Mits]

There is no real best solution, just a compromise. Sega did try an intermediate solution with Driving Rain 2018, Xmas 2018 etc, where all runs were 12min long, therefore everyone got to do 3 runs assuming no disconnections and starting from x:00. But even that did bring complaints that some runs were not reaching high amounts of points, and therefore quality of rewards was lower.

Sega hasn't capitalized on the ranking system they had for Mining Base Defense and now for some Ultra Hard ECs. Imagine if the game decided lower 80% of rewards (the so called vendor rewards) based on how far you reached or how many you killed, and the higher 20% of rewards (14*+ drops, progress on CF, chances for rare materials etc.) based on the player's performance (total damage contribution, damage taken, healing done to others, reaction to events [like killing a tower in BQ instead of just mobbing], etc).

[ArcaneTechs]

There is no real best solution, just a compromise. Sega did try an intermediate solution with Driving Rain 2018, Xmas 2018 etc, where all runs were 12min long, therefore everyone got to do 3 runs assuming no disconnections and starting from x:00. But even that did bring complaints that some runs were not reaching high amounts of points, and therefore quality of rewards was lower.

Sega hasn't capitalized on the ranking system they had for Mining Base Defense and now for some Ultra Hard ECs. Imagine if the game decided lower 80% of rewards (the so called vendor rewards) based on how far you reached or how many you killed, and the higher 20% of rewards (14*+ drops, progress on CF, chances for rare materials etc.) based on the player's performance (total damage contribution, damage taken, healing done to others, reaction to events [like killing a tower in BQ instead of just mobbing], etc).

I just want to give you the heads up on W&R/Xmas 2018, very few people were legitmately upset about not getting max score while having max score was great, there was a threshold of having a set amount for maximum RDR applied (which I dont remember what it was for each EQ) but after those points were met, I believe every 1k or so applied a 20% bonus RDR to the drops. Minuscule as that was, it wasn't make or break, especially during Polytan EQ.

So essentially the time gate on those EQ's were ok it was obviously the more runs the better which couldnt be possible which upset people more, this wasn't a call to casual help

also screw the ranking Trial stuff, theres so much stuff that you can do to inflate your score its ridiculous, while use its a nice competition of sorts, rewarding people for top placements would only upset people even more for not meeting 1st

[Dark Priest]

also screw the ranking Trial stuff, theres so much stuff that you can do to inflate your score its ridiculous, while use its a nice competition of sorts, rewarding people for top placements would only upset people even more for not meeting 1st

That's precisely why you just ignore that garbage system, it works like old Mining base score where "just leech the kills for top score" nonsense, and the damage ones so many ways to cheese the score, i have no idea why they decided to put that dumb nonsense in a random Trial, i guess this was their attempt at something "new" at least the up coming visibolt one seems like some actual effort since people mostly fail those due to laziness.

[Zulastar]

Hey, you're all totally forgot about fucks who pack themselves with 3-4k HP without any attack on, so they may have an Expert but no real DPS in MPAs.

[ArcaneTechs]

That's precisely why you just ignore that garbage system, it works like old Mining base score where "just leech the kills for top score" nonsense, and the damage ones so many ways to cheese the score, i have no idea why they decided to put that dumb nonsense in a random Trial, i guess this was their attempt at something "new" at least the up coming visibolt one seems like some actual effort since people mostly fail those due to laziness.

What Im saying is theres nothing wrong with it now in UH, its to get people to try harder for placements in return its getting people to DPS more which in return completes w/e faster since its just a little fun competition within the mpa but it doesn't mean you should feel ashamed either if you didnt place.

but again, if they rewarded people which is nice, it'll just be another double edge sword getting people to whine and complain about muh dps and elitism etc

Hey, you're all totally forgot about fucks who pack themselves with 3-4k HP without any attack on, so they may have an Expert but no real DPS in MPAs.

If these guys managed to make it under the par times to get said Expert Title (and while i dont agree with no atks on affix builds) then I guess they more than earned their way in but if they cheesed it then uhh I guess insert Hollow Victory meme here