Can Legits and Dupers really co-exist?

[Zaneatron]

why dont people listen........anyway. i have many legit friends who dont mind playing with me, being a duper. i co-exist fine, i am not out to get anyone or ruin anyones game, i admit it is rather easy to kill things but thats how i like to play the game, its still a challenge, i still die, probably a similar amount to if i were legit.
i dont see why u have to have such a childish attitude to other "cheaters". i reguard duping as nowhere near as bad as some other stuff, and at any rate im far more likely to come off on the bad side of things due to the good ol' fsod. i feel hacking is another kettle of fish though, this is someone altering programming to create 100% ill-ligitimate items guarenteed. also as someone pointed out earlier, when an item is duped there is no copy and no original at the same time due to the exact same item being...you know what.
The worse people though arnt cheaters, well they probably are but these people are f*cking annoying. yes you guessed it these people fsod other people. they are the worst, i even feel pissed when i lose duped items, u may not think that, " oh yeah he can just go dupe another load of tj's cos he has 20 in his bank" thats BS i only have a few, theres no need for that many, think about it, why would i need that many. at any rate they annoy everyone.
also the PK and NOL'ing side of things, this would be bad but so far we seem safe.
so stop generalising every "cheater" as a malisious bastard whos out to kill off all legits, im not, im glad there are legits, they make the game interesting as do those who use dupes. and this final point has been made probably a million time, ITS ONLY A BLODDY GAME, get over it, if u care so much try and turn it into real life, that way we'd all have to be legit.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Zane-online on 2003-09-17 16:05 ]</font>

[jt]

Guntz lets just say that me and Civx had some dissagreements... right Civx?

[TinyD]

Hey, I sense a lot of negative vibrations coming off of this web page, so I'll throw in my 2 cents worth. Actually, thinking about it, I'm in the UK, so I'll make that 2 pence. except I think the exchange rate makes that worth about 3 cents, so you're getting a total favour from me, dudes, okay? By the way, as this is a purely human issue, with no precise logical answer, then you might not agree with what I've got to say. So don't attack me, okay! It's just the nature of the beast.

Are dupers or legits evil? No, I wouldn't say that. Evil is too strong a word.

But there's no doubt that dupers do affect the legits games, whereas the legits don't affect dupers at all - instead of a level playing field, we have ppl who've changed the playing field itself. This is where challenge comes in:

When playing a game, I reckon the fun is in overcoming challenges. Would you buy a fighting game where your character was invincible? An RPG which, instead of having to follow the story, you could just warp to any point from the start of the game and never lose a battle? No. Neither would I. Of course challenge by itself doesn't make a good game, but you get my point.

Of course some ppl get more frustrated that others with a challenge - this has something to do with patience. True, some weaps are super-hard to find, but they can be found (if they couldn't, there'd be no originals to dupe, eh?) and the sense of achievement at finding that special item doesn't compare to being just given one as they've become dirt-cheap on the open market. So this isn't about whether the items are more real or not (the 'hex code' is the same.) but how you feel, emotionally, about finding an item and building your character.

I reckon that there's a grey area too - with the fsod and fsod-x, it makes you want to dupe just to regain your lost items, doesn't it? But perhaps just to regain lost items, not to get loads of weaps you don't need.

So, zane online, u think that u should try real life to be a legit, eh? So when some drunken, low-life, wife-beating scum wins ten million dollars on the lottery, is he a legit? Or is it true that you feel just as cheated in real life when people circumvent the rules and get things they've not 'earned' (in quotes cos' its down to perception, that one) according to your view of life? One to think about, hmm?

I reckon duping breaks up the community spirit too - people just aren't trusting and aren't willing to trade nemore. Which is a shame. Also, the Japanese are now avoiding Americans like the plague, cos' they value the challenge of the game so cheating doesn't go down too well over on the JP servers. This is a real shame. It's interesting with this one that there's a cultural difference here being highlighted too.

Of course there is the part of the game, aside from the challenge, where you want to see new things and 'just have to' have every item, but this would, in my opinion, be more rewarding if trades existed without duping. Imagine if, instead of everyone having every HU weapon, it took you months to find them all. Imagine the kudos of having them all finally! and the sense of achievement! Instead, such a collection is commonplace and worth next to nothing.

Also, community-wise, if every1 didn't have the best of everything, you'd have to rely on your team-mates more, as their strenghts (cos' they had items stronger in some areas than yours) would cover your weaknesses and vice-versa.

I think in the end that the only way to solve this is to have a PSO where fsod doesn't exist and duping can't be done. Then we'll all have a much more rewarding experience. So I'm looking forward to epIII! maybe I'll c u there? i bet if u ask the epIII trial ppl, who are playing in a world without cheating, that they've really liked it. Why not ask them?

well, seeya then,



Tiny D

P.S. btw, jt, what are crips and bloods? I'm in England, so I don't know. Could you tell me? tx, D

[CivX]

The thing is though, PSO isn't your average RPG. In a regular RPG there is an end, in PSO there really isn't one. Sure..you beat Dark Falz and win the game, but what then? You just do it over and over until you get to level 200 or move on to episode 2.

I simply don't want to do that and have changed the game for myself. Like I said, if someone comes into your legit game and kills everything before you get a chance to hit it then that person is an asshole and doesn't matter what weapon he's using because a legit could easily do the same thing.

If a legit gets a rare it's the greatest thing in the world. If I get a rare it's not a big deal because I can make any item I want, however my items are just as legit as yours (except if it's an actual hacked item). They are not "duped" because they are the SAME EXACT THING.


And jt, we did not have a dissagreement, I simply don't like you.

[gallaugher]

On 2003-09-17 11:27, CivX wrote:
Honestly? Only the mature legits and cheaters will get along. But for many of the legits on here who can't get their head out of their ass long enough to listen to reason, no. Legits seem to think that the cheaters are out to get them and ruin their time. The truth is, only asshole players would do that regardless of what weapons they have equipped.

Another thing is, there is too much hate for dupes (the items). As a hex editor, let me explain one thing: ALL ITEMS SHARE THE SAME HEX CODE, THEY ARE NOT COPIES. Your "legit" god/battle is the same one I forced the game to create for me. So please don't think you're better than I am because you found one.

But other than that, I think we can all get along if we just try.

I was agreeing with you at the beginning of this post. However, you seem to place more blame on the elitist legits than on the cheaters. That is a very difficult statement to prove. You should back it up with a real good argument.

The truth of the matter is two-fold. The elitist legits aren't helping the situation, they need to be more tolerant. The elitist cheaters aren't helping either & they too need to be more tolerant. Neither side is making the situation any easier to deal with. Both groups are assholes. I can co-exist with cheaters. I don't like it but I'm not going to try & change someone. Cheaters may not be out to actually ruin a legits' fun directly but they've already tarnished it. No player that wants to be legit will openly trade for items. That's a shame. Being able to trade with anyone would be so cool.

I think by now everyone knows there is no technical difference between dupes & 'originals'. That's an empty argument. Do I think I'm better than you because I found my own God Battle? Better? I don't really know you so I can't say. I can say that I VALUE my God Battle a hell of a lot more than any cheater. When you find items yourself it's actually exciting when rares drop. The thing about rares is you don't NEED uber rares to be good in this game. I use 'regular' rares all the time & have a great time doing it. There is nothing wrong with a Final Impact, Justy, Red Sword or all of the other relatively easy to find yet useful rares.

This post would not be complete without acknowledging Pancakebunny and jt. You may not be legit, I don't know. However, you appear to be acting like the elitist legits that CivX is talking about. You're just proving what CivX wrote about elitist legits having their heads up their asses. You're not helping.

What you should do is post about why you are legit & why you don't like cheating. You can do that without flaming someone & you can also 'spread the word' that way. Why would someone that cheats want to be legit when they read what you post?

[Nei3rd]

The Bloods and Crips are a gang in Los Angeles that are always fighting. They are known widely for being the worst gangs to ever exsist.

[jt]

On 2003-09-18 07:45, Nei3rd wrote:
The Bloods and Crips are a gang in Los Angeles that are always fighting. They are known widely for being the worst gangs to ever exsist.

The Legits and Cheaters are groups on PSO that are always arguing. They are known on widely on PSO for being the worst people ever to exist.

do u even know the history of bloods and crips? watch history channel sometimes

[jt]

On 2003-09-17 14:36, CivX wrote:
LOL

Another topic ruined by immature brats. WAY TO GO GUYS!

dang it was ruined before we even came in... maybe its just ur presence or something but THANKS!

[Guntz348]

JT what did I just get through saying? Seriously if you have nothing constructive to add then don't say anything at all. I don't care if you and civx don't get along what did I just say a few posts ago? Obviously you don't get it, quit trolling around looking for a fight and if you really want to argue your point, try using facts and well thought out insights.

[Dragon_Knight]

gallaugher- Red Sword, easy to find....lol right. I'm the guy with a Skylye almost up to Ultimate now and I have a hard time finding Flowen's Swords, on a side note I finaly found my 2nd DB Saber just last week. While I'll agree we don't NEED uber rares in online play, if your a hunter offline you kinda do to hit things in Ultimate and not take hours to do it.

As far as the whole trading thing goes, I really don't know why people think it was ruined. The only things anyone would ever trade anyway were the things everthing else dropped (i.e. Stag Cutlery, Varius guns, or section ID rares) heaven forbid someone trade one of their five sealed J-swords. That last inciedent happened to a friend three weeks after GC PSO came online.