People who roll high and move on first turn

[Shimarisu]

God, does nobody know this?

It ain't polite to roll a jammy 6 after scoring first move, then equip your best weap and run forward as many squares as you can. Everyone knows you now have the advantage, especially if your opponent is say, a FO who needs at least a 4 to cast on you. It's downright rude to do. Happened to me today on tower of Caelum. He equipped a high HP weap and ran forward. I threw a 2, could equip nothing, only run. He then placed HP attack on his high HP weap and knocked me down to 4 HP. I was so angry. It never happens on the JP ships - why do you suppose nobody runs forward on their first go? Why do you suppose the COM players don't either - it's programmed into the game as behaviour to observe. If you get first turn and then throw a 6 on your first go and have good weaps and def in your hand, run forward if you like but you won on purely nothing but a dice roll (one) and nobody will like you for it.

- Shimarisu

[RiskBreaker]

I was under the impression that running forwards straight off has its own risks? Moving straight up field first means you are in danger if your opponent rolls high as they have to use less ATK to get within attacking range or to deploy creatures right on top of you.

Thats why I thought the CPU doesn't move on their first turn, always seemed to me that it could put them at a tactical disadvantage as much as an advantage.

Sure it works if your opponent only rolls low, but if they roll high you could be screwed.

Then again I'm just a n00b

Flip what you're saying on its head. Your opponent scores first move, lands a 2 and can't equip anything. You roll a six and equip your best weapon then move forwards putting you at an advantage. Is that wrong too?

Are you saying its unfair to take any action that puts your opponent at a disadvantage and check each others cards to make sure both can start the game fairly. The point of tactical games is to take advantages of your opponents weaknesses, you may force them into a disadvantage or they may accidently end up disadvantaged, it doesn't matter.

Combat real or pretend isn't and never was fair.

I can understand the gripes about cheap decks but you have to be careful you don't take things too far.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: RiskBreaker on 2004-03-29 05:30 ]</font>

[Arislan]

While technically, this is a rant, it`s also game strategy, so should probably stay here. I thought about this one for a few mins, starting on the "well, why not run forward?" and am now pretty much in Shims camp. I thought of a couple nasty things with Stella and the like that would be pretty much game killers in anti Arkz situations, even in Unguis Lapis. People, if you're doing it and want to be known for it, go ahead, but I personally don't think I will be.

[Malkavian]

Come on this is part of the game. Go ahead 1st turn is very risky. All my fast loses are for do that. If your opponents gets better dice next turns you are the one that wasted dice for move and your opponent can attack you outright.
Also use a high cost character in tower of Caelum is not a good tactic IMO. You can do it for the fun of extra challenge but is you who used that char. Don't complain to your opponent about it.

If many japanese don't do it is because they don't want to risk and like to prepare themselves before going up. But if you can't go up fast you are automatically dooming all low cost decks. Which advantage is be able to strike faster.

[decswxaqz]

Oh god. So let's see.
Arkz (according to you and the majority of PSO) already have an unfair advantage. So let's now stop running forward when we aren't surrounded by monsters because we are being polite. Let them surround us with monsters and stay in our original position because we were playing fair?
The only thing Heros can do to hit Arkz is to move hard and fast. That's is literally the only way to hit them at all. Now why can't we move to get them whilst we still have the chance?

If you are talking about Hero vs Hero then it's a bit more unclear. The game is all about luck. That's why they have dice. It's all a gamble. Sometimes you will get a good dice, sometimes you won't. Why not take advantage of it? What happens if the other person consitantly gets poor dice, either on the first few turns or the whole match? Are we supposed to wait for them to get a good dice/weapon every time? Luck (as well as skill) is a major player in this game. Have one low cost weapon in your deck to stop this from happening if you are so worried about it happening. You'll have 1 in 3 chance of getting it at the start of the match (discard first 5).

Again, it's all about stratergy. Having a plan in place to counter any bad situation you are in. Stacking your deck with uber-rare or powerful cards is just asking for trouble.

EDIT:
It's a risky tactic to run forward first. They get a high dice and they can attack you. I guess the Japanese aren't willing to bet on such a 'risky' tactic as that. But EU/US people will because it's in our nature to challenge and take the fight to the other person. I've played with plenty of Japanese who are willing to move if they think they have the advantage.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: decswxaqz on 2004-03-29 06:06 ]</font>

[Shimarisu]

Think about it.

I throw a 6 6. I have a 4 cost +10 def card + 2 cost def in my hand. I have a good weap. Equipping it and running forward is going to be VERY little risk to me, but death to my opponent if they have a lousy hand or roll which is pretty much 50/50 on this game.

If however, you move forward one on Mortis Fons to avoid an Arkz player blocking you in, fair enough. But doing it on a small area and counting on a shite roll from your opponent is plain dirty. Especially if yes, they are an Arkz.

Trust me, I get it done to me a LOT when I play a FO. They know the FO needs a good hand to even attack. They know I need a weap and a tech card, and at least 4 to equip both and attack. That's unlikely in your first hand. So yep, the dirty bastards equip and run forward if they got a 6. Rangers do it especially, equip a rifle and run forward. Now they know if I've got a shite hand or rolled bad dice they've ended the match on the next turn. And I've been playing a FO a lot lately, so witnessed this happening three times today. And it makes me curse so much I have to clean the bloody monitor.

Arkz, don't talk to be about arkz, they are dirty plain and simple. I hate fighting Arkz. I'm just pleased to see a Hunter, and when they do the same dirty "pin you in straight off" crap as an Arkz, it makes my blood boil.

Stop fucking rushing FOs like this. Especially you fuckers with Kaladbolg who like to equip it and rush me. Yep I have rod of laconium on my deck, but if I don&t get it in first hand I'm fucked and don&t you know it.

- Shimarisu

[SkyHawkX]

Yeah, that sure is absolutely rude. Sonic Team should patch so you can never get 6 6 on the first roll!

Give me a break.

[Nisshoku]

I really wouldn't fret over something like this, since both the die rolls as well as combat itself, are just a chance in itself.

And with PSO, you're found to find people with worse tactics.

[RiskBreaker]

On 2004-03-29 06:36, RiskBreaker wrote:

Stop fucking rushing FOs like this. Especially you fuckers with Kaladbolg who like to equip it and rush me. Yep I have rod of laconium on my deck, but if I don&t get it in first hand I'm fucked and don&t you know it.

- Shimarisu

No offense matey but, you know what your weakness is, yet it sounds like you persist in using FO's. If my there was a chance that I might face someone whereby my only defence would be to have a certain card in my hand AND roll high enough to use it. I'd stop using the deck. If you aren't prepared to adapt expect to be repeatedly killed by people using the same tactic.

Take this battle I had just yesterday and please bear in mind that in writing this I bare no grudge against the guy that beat me.

So he starts off with Ino'lis and I picked Sil'fer. Both start the game off as normal, each equipping items and such to start with. I move up field when I'm ready, he/she lets me advance. When I'm in range on their turn they move up and belt me with tech attacks, in a matter of moments my equipped cards are destroyed and I'm down to 4 health.

Suddenly I realise my mistake, this deck just isn't prepared for tech attacks, the best I can do is use my one dodge card and my one cane guard card which is likely hiding at the bottom of my deck.

I stuck in there and managed to knock off maybe 4 or 5 of his/her health by the time I went down.

The point?

I didn't know he was using Ino'lis until we were both on the board, if I had I might of picked a different deck. As it was I picked my Sil'fer deck and the moment I did I was at a disadvantage.

Through no fault of the other player I might add, he may have had a well prepared Inolis deck he had spent ages piecing together. Maybe if I had picked another deck I would of won, maybe not. But I'll consider the use of my next deck carefully in case I get walked over again. And if I don't adapt my Sil'fer deck and the same thing happens? More fool me.

It could perhaps be considered unfair that going into the battle he was better adapted than I. You might even argue that merely by trying to win the battle he was taking advantage of my poor deck.

It could be considered unfair that I have very few cards for defending against techs. That its unfair the game randomly distributes such cards and thus far I have collected so few.

Unfair that maybe my decks wont be ready to combat tech users for a while.

Unfair that maybe it has nothing to do with the deck and my tactical knowledge is inadequate.

The dice rolls themselves could be considered unfair, with a series of bad rolls inevitably leading to defeat.

The game is unfair. When your tactical knowledge beats your poor dice rolls or their superior weapons. When the makeup of your deck is all that stands between you and defeat. It's the fighting in the face of adversity that makes the game fun and frustrating in equal measures. Which is what competing is all about.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: RiskBreaker on 2004-03-29 06:40 ]</font>

[Shimarisu]

Typical fucking Americans, rush the opponent on their first turn and then try to justify it.

Wanna tell me why I never see it on Mintaka?

Using a FO ain't a poor deck strategy. I'll use a FO if I want, OK? As a matter of fact I can't USE my best deck. Why? Cause I had to remake my char, thanks to all the abuse I got off RUDE WESTERN PLAYERS. It had Penetration in it, an S card I won't see til level 50 or so.

I'm beginning to hate the human race thanks to this game. Or rather, half of it.

- Shimarisu