Time to end the cheap decks

[Capricornus]

I havent got ep3 for very long and only started to play vs HU since a week ago (com bashing is so boring and repetitive imo)

I really like to play vs HU and its a nice opportunity to test my decks, but I already had to face a few cheap decks. On big maps you usually get to face the cheap machine or slime decks, on small maps I tend to see a lot of FO-rukmin-brave hammer-charity-dice fever decks.
I like to use a varied deck against all situations, but these decks are so cheap and skilless imo and very hard to counter if you havent got the needed cards yet (assistless to name just one card I really need to counter this cheapness)

I dont think theres any need to go play vs hu untill I have the proper cards to counter all situations, so com bashing and offline it will be for a short time.

When I do find the proper cards to counter those decks, however, I will go face them and make it a mission to beat those cheap decks with the hope never see those cheapness again and finally be able to face other varied decks (nothing beats 2 varied decks facing eachother)

[rena-ko]

all good wishes from me to you on your noble quest.

i took the other option and never bought the game in the first place after reading all those stories.

anyway, have fun and beat the crap outa them!!

[Superguppie]

I agree that cheap decks can make the game boring. But that's the problem with games. The only thing that counts in the end is winning. And a winning strategy is a winning strategy, no matter how ugly it is.
I've been thinking. I think a deck with a lot of Rampage things in it might help against cheap Hero decks. And multi-hitters might do the same for cheap Arkz decks. I haven't tried any of this so far though.
In my main deck I have some cheap cards and some expensive cards and some inbetween cards. It seems to work fine for me. Even beat some people with relatively cheap decks. Although I have to admit that using the cheap cards in my deck makes things easier in the beginning, I still like ripping out my Y3000 and do some serious damage in the end-game...

[Capricornus]

On 2004-07-13 04:10, rena-ko wrote:
all good wishes from me to you on your noble quest.

i took the other option and never bought the game in the first place after reading all those stories.

anyway, have fun and beat the crap outa them!!

Thx Rena, too bad though you dont join us on ep3 (although I tried to convince you

But then again, if Aura or Rab couldnt convince you to buy ep3, Im afraid I will never see you on ep3

I most certainly will come down to pay you guys (and girls in your case Rena a visit on ep1-2.

Still need to get that WORKS guard for a few chars of mine, so will be on ep1-2 for a while too

[Capricornus]

On 2004-07-13 04:14, Superguppie wrote:
I agree that cheap decks can make the game boring. But that's the problem with games. The only thing that counts in the end is winning. And a winning strategy is a winning strategy, no matter how ugly it is.
I've been thinking. I think a deck with a lot of Rampage things in it might help against cheap Hero decks. And multi-hitters might do the same for cheap Arkz decks. I haven't tried any of this so far though.
In my main deck I have some cheap cards and some expensive cards and some inbetween cards. It seems to work fine for me. Even beat some people with relatively cheap decks. Although I have to admit that using the cheap cards in my deck makes things easier in the beginning, I still like ripping out my Y3000 and do some serious damage in the end-game...

I really would like you to see use your punch and Yas3k on a FO-rukmin-brave hammer-charity-dice fever team deck -> Rukmin is an action disruptor (no action cards can be used in ur attacks) and they do defend attacks with decline, brave hammer declines too (with additional cane guards and resists)

The only way I could dammage them was with my slicer (which I always keep in deck to punch low costers)and wok (shield killer).
Still didnt had any assitless cards however

[Jazhara]

It's nowhere as bad as reading PSOW makes it sound Rena, honest - same as always it depends who you play with and where.

v1 / v2 were far worse for online idiots. I played my JP version of EpIII mostly offline (couldn't work out what card to play when in online time limit at first, then once I knew what I was doing read too many horror stories), and I regret it now!

Malk and Arislan summed all this up a while back, here.


Some other vs cheap tips, they sit ok in general decks (rather than specific cheap counter-decks), unfortunately they do require cards you won't have at the start of the game (doesn't take too long to get though):

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- Assistless is available from the shop as a Special Coin, while hard to get it's the most reliable way. AFAIK the value of the cash spent in the shop doesn't affect the chance of a Coin, so buy 50 meseta cards if you're going for a Special.


- Play Territory with Assistless (Territory first of course) vs spam / Slimes.


- Assist Vanish is good for clearing multiple Mine Brightness / Cave Wind before an Assistless, or if you don't have Assistless at least it clears what's down. Available from the shop, not rare.


- If you don't have Assistless yet, take cheap Assist cards (DON'T use expensive ones, 1-2 pts is best) that help you clear the enemy AP boosters.


- Snails Pace is good vs Slime decks on medium / larger maps, particularly when you have ranged attacks. Also available from the Shop.


- Creatures with the 'Warp' ability (e.g. Sinows, Sorcerers) are very effective vs cheap decks that block the route to the Story Characters with small creatures. Just warp past.


- Tornado & Virus are great vs cheap MC decks.


- Status effects are good vs Slimes, e.g. freeze / hold. Take HS25 Justice / Gibarta / Rabarta.


- Be careful with Defence cards vs AP boosters, e.g. Mine Brightness and Cave Wind, things that affect enemy stats (such as TP Defence or Weakness) won't work. The defence card only affects the base creature itself, the Assist's AP boost applies afterwards.


- Area effect damage. Have many ways of hitting multi on different patterns, with extra damage. Either take a character with Fixed or plenty of Slash / Heavy Slash / Round Slay / Stab etc. Most cheap decks use low HP creatures, even Slime is only 6HP these days - multi hits can take out several at once.

- Don't panic, keep an eye on the game time. If you can keep destroying the cheap creatures and playing def cards, you'll be ahead on EX dice before them - a big help.

----------------------


As I said, these cards can sit well in general decks too. Warp creatures are a bit specific granted, but the others hold.

I have 1x Assistless (minimum) and 1x Territory in all vs Human decks, those 2 cards help me fight most cheapers without clogging my deck, and are useful against others too. Many decks I also take 1 Assist Vanish.

If you don't have Assistless yet, take a couple of Vanish. Doesn't help when they play AP boost assists and attack on their turn, but Vanish also clears dice so they are unlikely to be able to set creatures, assists and do big damage in a single turn. If they're way ahead on EX dice then you've lost anyway hehe.

Territory is good vs many sorts of spam (such as Kaldabolg x4) and cheap-cost theme decks (e.g. Inolis Mace of Adaman). Assist Vanish is useful vs 6-7 pter decks that need high dice, and any low-cost deck that uses Assist boosts. Also good vs the Charity / Dice Fever thing, especially if you also play Assistless - the Viviana deck becomes pretty useless if it can't get started early. Only 1 point to play too, plenty left to attack.



That's some of my take on cheapers anyway, works for me (e.g. we beat a 2 Ohgun cheap MC deck on Dolor Odor np with Warp / Vanish / Territory) - I'm sure some of the better players will be able to add to / correct it.


To Arislan / mods, can I suggest a counter-cheapness sticky might be a good idea? It's been discussed a few times, but always drops off the page...









<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Jazhara on 2004-07-13 07:23 ]</font>

[Capricornus]

Very nice Jaz (Risu)

I double that regarding the sticky request

[Jazhara]

Heh, anything to discourage cheapers - if it don't work, they won't do it.

Happy to let you Slime me to death on a C ship for a bit tonight if you're on, the best way to learn to fight one is to use and lose with it. Not that I'm suggesting ye would lose of course...

[Myopathy]

On 2004-07-13 06:41, Capricornus wrote:
I really would like you to see use your punch and Yas3k on a FO-rukmin-brave hammer-charity-dice fever team deck -> Rukmin is an action disruptor (no action cards can be used in ur attacks)

A Punch card will still Rampage, whether one of the cards is an AC or not. I'm not sure if it is a bug or not, but a general rule is AC disruptors do not take away the range of the action card. So if someone used a slash on you, the AC disruptor would negate the +2AP, but they would still have the slash range.

[Jazhara]

Check the AC disrupt description - not a bug:

When one item / creature / SC hits anything that is called 1 'battle'.

AC disrupt states any attacks before the battle begins are not affected.

The area of attack, or number of items being attacked, is set before any contact is made, and thus is before the 'battle' and is unaffected - Rampage, Pierce, Guard Creature etc.