I missed out - call me dude
I missed out - call me dude
Just tested if miss damage cancel and it does.
A fonewearl needed 6 foie to solo kill a bartle.
I used my hucaseal and spam spirit vulcan's special on bartle while the fonewearl tried to kill it. The 2nd one took 7 foie and the 3rd one took 9 foie.
So HHH combo on barta ray is a bad idea because 1st hit will very likely miss. If I'm to risk damage cancel, I want to at least have a chance to do damage.
The point about HHH was that it seems to cause less damage cancel than NNH or NHH does. I won't try and back up this argument, suffice to say, that this is a Japanese theory.
The Japanese are quite rigid in their gameplay, and if you don't do what they expect, then they often dismiss you as a noob. Hence you will find most Gamecube players tend to play in the 'Japanese style'.
DMC should be much less of a problem on Ep2. The only thing to worry about is on bosses and say Sinows/Belras/Delbiters etc. Even so, 2 players taking on a bot that has a lot of hitpoints will still kill it faster than 1 player alone, despite the dmc; only on weak monsters will you be wasting time.
As Shig said, Ep2 has fixed spawns, so DMC should be a lot less of a problem.
That's the same as saying, "I do want I want and my way is best. I don't care if game data proves otherwise."On 2006-01-27 05:13, SLON wrote:
The Japanese are quite rigid in their gameplay, and if you don't do what they expect, then they often dismiss you as a noob.
Anyway, this isn't exactly about dmc being a problem. This is more about how to deal with dmc in a situations where you have to gang up on a mob or when is dmc worth risking to make things go faster. Of course nobody is going to care about weak mobs which you can solo kill it in one or two combo. However, on mobs like zoa and zele, ganging up prevents them from wraping all over the place if used with refreeze bug. But it's not always a good idea. I've seen 2 hucasts spam mechgun on the same biter. I took a nap and when I came back, the biter was still not dead. Why do you think I keep yelling at the hucasts in question to run up to biter and use pallash instead of spamming mechgun?
I analyze almost everything when I play this game, it's just something I naturally do. For example, in 2c2, when I first got to the room with 6 delay dubchic spawn, I've been told to just wait outside of the room until they all finish spawning. I looked at it and found it to be painfully slow and boring. So I decided to break one dubchic in advance and lure them away from the switch. After the 5th one finish spawning, I give the signal to come in and break the switch. And the switch is broken right after the 6th one spawned. Of course, the first time I did this, people were like WTF are you doing you noob, but now, nobody contest me when I do this.
The reason why HHH is generally better is because if you are doing equal amount of damage with someone, then the game has to take one of those damage.
For example, if someone did a W hit at the same time someone does a H hit, then damage that was given to the enemy has a chance that the game might take the W hit.
If that person did a H hit instead of a W then the game will have to take one of those hits.
Of course this is under the assumption that both of the person's hard hits are the same strength so if someone's hard hit is weaker, its better to have that one person hit the enemy by himself.
Anything can cause dmc regardless it is a saber or a handgun. To be honest I don't know if the game totally cancel your two hits out or only take one person's hit.
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: metatime on 2006-01-27 07:52 ]</font>
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: metatime on 2006-01-27 07:53 ]</font>
Two observations here:On 2006-01-27 07:30, Notos wrote:
That's the same as saying, "I do want I want and my way is best. I don't care if game data proves otherwise."On 2006-01-27 05:13, SLON wrote:
The Japanese are quite rigid in their gameplay, and if you don't do what they expect, then they often dismiss you as a noob.
Anyway, this isn't exactly about dmc being a problem. This is more about how to deal with dmc in a situations where you have to gang up on a mob or when is dmc worth risking to make things go faster. Of course nobody is going to care about weak mobs which you can solo kill it in one or two combo. However, on mobs like zoa and zele, ganging up prevents them from wraping all over the place if used with refreeze bug. But it's not always a good idea. I've seen 2 hucasts spam mechgun on the same biter. I took a nap and when I came back, the biter was still not dead. Why do you think I keep yelling at the hucasts in question to run up to biter and use pallash instead of spamming mechgun?
I analyze almost everything when I play this game, it's just something I naturally do. For example, in 2c2, when I first got to the room with 6 delay dubchic spawn, I've been told to just wait outside of the room until they all finish spawning. I looked at it and found it to be painfully slow and boring. So I decided to break one dubchic in advance and lure them away from the switch. After the 5th one finish spawning, I give the signal to come in and break the switch. And the switch is broken right after the 6th one spawned. Of course, the first time I did this, people were like WTF are you doing you noob, but now, nobody contest me when I do this.
1) If I have Freeze Traps, you bet I'm going to go racing down to put the whack a doodle on a delbiter. If I don't, I'm going to sit up top and pepper him with assaults unless someone else has a freeze trap. I've lost to many scapes because the force was either too far away or napping while I was getting confused and having my mate count drop to zero fighting the Delbiter with my pallasch.
2) As for trying things out, yes I think it's good to experiment. But, when you have a shot at a 12-min time for 2c3 and you lose it because someone was experimenting with fonewearl placement and dropping scape after scape after scape - well, it can be a bit frustrating.
In the long run, your observations, experiments and thoughts have generally proven correct and you have become a very good force in cmode as a result. It just gets a bit frustrating to be on the receiving end of directions on how to play a game and a mode that I've been playing for a long time.
Hopefully we can play with the dmc thing this weekend.
False. SLON has already proven both damage can be discarded with his 1c2 rock example. If the game has to take one of the damage, then the rock will always break after one player hit it 6 times. I've seen dmc at its worst in vhard cave once. It was me and a force on a shark that is supposed to die in one LHH combo. The force was spamming tech, doing damage comparable to my hard hit. We ganged up on it and after I do 3 combos, it still wouldn't die. So the server discarded almost all of our damage packets. I then back off and the shark quickly died.On 2006-01-27 07:50, metatime wrote:
The reason why HHH is generally better is because if you are doing equal amount of damage with someone, then the game has to take one of those damage.
The only benefit I see on HHH is that it attacks slower so less risk of dmc. But you're forfeiting 1/3 of your attack time and still have risk of dmc with miss. If miss does not damage cancel, then I have to agree on HHH, but it does.
The reason we have damage cancel is because the server can't handle the incoming data so it discards some/all of it. Damage cancel is not a feature, it's because we have crappy programming/server.
As for Sitka, I only nap when all the HU's stay on top when there's biter.If using mechgun, no more than 1 HU should attack since it attacks so fast. If using pal, 2 HU abusing the refreeze bug is good. 3 might be a bit of overkill, but can test if you want. What I'm saying here is general tactics and are not set in stone, so tell me if you find my information wrong or if you find a better way.
As for gryphon, I think it's really worth it to go to the other side. If done right, I can barta it 5 to 6 times if it flies to the other side. Even if it doesn't, I'll be in the perfect position to hit its front leg while the other 2 forces hit its hind leg. Yes, I know it can be frustrating when I drop both of my dolls because of it and I apologize for that. As soon as RT comes out, I'll do some solo practice there. But right now, I want my crimson coat and vivienne! I wrote a walkthrough for gryphon, but there's still one thing I'm not certain so I didn't post it.
Also, if I do something wrong, I want you to tell me.
In one of the Gryphon battles it was more like 5 scapes I believe
Only 2 of those were from me sitting on the other side.The other 3 were from gryphon was being a bitch as usual.
This was the answer I was seeking, considering it's always 1 of the 4 values and a very random thing when it happends. there's no need at all to think about dmc on bosses. Oh well on Gol, Gal, Olga, you can hit different bodyparts therefore have a chance to deal a tiny bit more dmg. ^ ^;On 2006-01-26 07:02, Notos wrote:
1)Fonewearl #1's damage is discarded. (half damage)
2)Fonewearl #2's damage is discarded. (half damage)
3)Both fonewearl's damage is discarded. (no damage)
4)Both fonewearl's damage is registered. (full damage)
and I agree with CCL, this is an important matter but we shouldnt talk about seconds when we still can improve our times with minutes.
We still haven't had single good E2C2 run for example and should talk about general tactics instead. But still, I was merely asking how the dmgc works for my personal interest.
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