Unfair item distribution; all lies.

[daylight129]

Okay this has been bugging me a lot for a long time, even since PSO days and I thought I'd lift it off my chest in to a good discussion. I hope I can atleast get that. No flames please. Not wanted.

Back in Phantasy Star Online, there was a commonly thrown around idea that it was more difficult to obtain rares are other items of any value in parties with hunters. This is presented by the fact that hunters specialize in melee combat, so they are indeed usually near the enemy as it perishes, most of the time granting them immediate dibs on any sort of item that the enemy might drop. I can't say I disagree with the somewhat of an advantage the hunters very obviously do have in this kind of situation but my opinion of the matter is quite contradictory. I've had people join and leave a game because I wouldn't put it on random item distribution. Now, to their credit, it's their choice to either leave or stay. I have no control in how they want to play their game, that's why the item distribution system was even created in the first place. But I want to address a few key points...

As Forces/Rangers, we are usually ranged from the fight, disallowing us any sort of immediate looting from the enemies that are being killed...
Maybe so, but there are ways to compensate. Get close to the enemy when you think he's going to die. Have a melee weapon yourself so you can walk up and give him a few wacks when you know his time is near. That way your chances are that of the hunter beating on it. Boxes are exempt from this, and boxes can contain items too you know. Any non-rare item that drops from an enemy in this game most likely can be found in a box just as well, and there are countless containers/haystacks/whatever all over this game. Use AOE spells - be in the middle of the action yourself if there are enemies abound that drop something of any kind of value to you. Rangers are said to almost be more efficient at swinging a melee weapon sometimes than a hunter, due to their ATA. Make use of that! Get in there and finish of the enemy if it drops something you are searching for.

I believe that these sorts of excuses are being used as a crutch. The item distrubtion systems that were implicated in this game eliminate that, but it's making all parties random distribution.

Random item distribution is most efficient because it's 100% luck who gets what, class imbalances hold no bar on the items that I can grab in my runs!
How can this not seem like it's taking a small element away? For some reason if I'm killing a monster alone in a corner, and I deplete my weapon's entire PP to kill it, it drops a rare and it gets jetted over to the hunter about 6-7 levels lower getting knocked down every 5 seconds by a Golmoro, I get ticked off. It doesn't discriminate by performance, which is the first flaw, and a huge one at that. Atleast with finders keepers, there is slight competition at some points in who can more quickly amp themselves to pick up the item or run to it. It adds a fundamental trait to obtaining items that to me was so key in making PSO what it was(the legit side of it). Secondly, although unlikely but possible, the same person can recieve an abundance of items over 1 run through this "luck".

My last point to get across is that Forces/Rangers shouldn't have much more room to complain based on the fact that their classes were not handed to them. They willingly chose the class, and should know the advantages and disadvantages of being that class, whether it be game fundamentals or an item picking up deficiency. In any case, I believe that the opportunity to obtain items is in every way just as simple as being a hunter, it just depends how you play. You can be a total looter and run around healing while letting the hunters tank the monsters while you nab all the items when they die. Don't get me wrong, I've played the other classes so I've had the experience to support what I say. So the next time you join a game and it happens to be finders keepers, instead of bitching at the leader to change it, do us all a favor and go make your own game.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: daylight129 on 2006-11-02 23:34 ]</font>


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: daylight129 on 2006-11-02 23:53 ]</font>

[Ether]

Altering your combat style to get your share of items is unefficient

[Garnet_Moon]

Last time I abandoned a target to try to get the killing blow and the rare drop off one of those rhinos in Relics, I cried. I ran over and it did that backhand move. It went right through the guys in front of him and nailed me(and only me, mind you) throwing me across the room. It died, but didn't drop anything cool. I guess I saw through to my evil greedy heart.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Garnet_Moon on 2006-11-02 23:41 ]</font>

[daylight129]

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: daylight129 on 2006-11-02 23:42 ]</font>

Altering your combat style to get your share of items is unefficient

And putting it on random ensures that everyone gets their "share"? I don't see much sense in that. I never said anyone had to alter their combat style either, it was just suggestions to those who really, honestly feel that they are disadvantaged by being their class. Putting it on turns doesn't do much justice to that cause either.





<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: daylight129 on 2006-11-02 23:43 ]</font>

[Apathy]

Im sorry .. I cannot understand your logic in this.. please forgive me.

[ChaosSentinel]

I agree, actually. Though I always put item distribution ordered, rares random whenever I create a group (And I'm a hunter, I just find it more fair), I do agree that nobody should be allowed to complain about a game they choose to join. I don't mind PLAYING in give to finder groups at all... I just prefer the other way when possible. But, if it's your group, you should be able to do whatever the hell you want.

[Mazoku]

My main gripe with finders keepers is that there's always one guy who goes for the boxes before attacking the monsters.

[Nani-chan]

I guess the only other way to get the items you want is to either solo or play with trusted friends who give you the items you need.

At least there are alternatives.

[Flunky]

Ideally, each member of a party is contributing equally to a mission and thus their item earnings should be even (or at least even over time as random theoretically does). People in the party that are just 'wasting space', to put it rather undiplomatically, should perhaps be removed from the party. Also keep in mind that the fact that the monster you kill alone in the corner is just as likely to have a rare as the one everybody's pounding on... the fact that the monster you killed happened to drop a rare is random, as will be its distribution.

As for the part about joining a party then complaining about the loot rules, that seems silly. I don't join 'give finder' missions, hunter though I may be- it's the leader's right to pick what they want, and it's my right to decide I don't want to work with a 'give finder' party.

(Warning: biased opinion follows) I like it when the party can actually focus on the combat until things are resolved instead of always keeping one eye open to snatch up the precious loots. Thus I don't do 'give finder'. In the parties I join everyone seems to be working hard, and thus all deserve a chance at loot, rare or not. If I'm in a party where incompetence is rampant, I'll work with a different group.

Oh- I also don't bother with 'give finder' after hearing stories from the parties I've been in about mexican standoffs over boxes. Entire parties gathered around a box waiting for somebody else to break it open, all eager to yoink whatever pops out. Supposedly somebody had one such standoff for over a minute before. Now that's what I call teamwork!

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Flunky on 2006-11-02 23:48 ]</font>

[Dj_SkyEpic]

Look. All you got to do is set up a party. Have a 6 man team then lock up that room with the rare distribution set on either ORDER or RANDOM while normal items on order.

If you want to have a FAIR share, set it on ORDER so that you guys can all at least get 1 at a time.

Start grinding places and get to know one anothe, thats another good idea.