Duping vs. Stealing

[QVirus89]

I would have to say Duping is worse. It gets good hard-work-earned weapons around to a bunch of whiners who won't work for what they want. Stealing was part of the original design of the game, and you have to watch out if you play with strangers. However, I feel that Sega should have made some type of reputation system, and reputation could be lowered by looting off a dead corpse. Somehow. I'm not sure on the specifics though. Maybe like in Diablo II, instead of just dropping stuff, it's part of your corpse. and picking up other's corpses would lower reputation? Just a side thought. Duping lowers the economy, but also spoils the fun of games, especially when you're playing with random strangers, and making new friends online. But I denounce both of them, and say they're both bad.

[onexero]

Sonic Team probably knew about the theiving problem, their original testers most likely didn't even like it. I think it's less a matter that they thought this was a GOOD thing that they just didn't get around to fixing it, kinda like they just kinda didn't get around to giving offical support for BBA in US.

Scarab: so basically you're saying that the game, through this "feature" allowing you to steal, basically makes you have to be wary of strangers. What the hell kind of ass-backwards thinking is this?

So they're thinking "whoo! let's make an ONLINE game, but practically FORCE players to only play with friends, cause we have set it up so that you have to automatically distrust other players." This is a COOPERATIVE game, not a competition. You shouldn't have to worry about other players in a videogame if you are meant to team up with them. If you say yeah you can also play with online people you trust, then that means you had to play with them as a stranger at some point. This may make the whole thing more like real life, but people want to play a game to HAVE FUN. I don't think anybody out there would think somebody ganking their gun off their freaking body or dicking them over in a trade is fun. This stealing crap is just a big headache, I think a player can show he's an asshole in this game in a number of ways and not have to be able to steal.

Nobody on the duping side has yet said yet exactly WHY duping is so bad. Sure it lowers to rarity of weapons but so what? YOU still earned it, so be happy in that. If some guy duped it that doesn't lower your accomplishment at all. DON'T LET IT BOTHER YOU. Theiving is something thrust on you, it hurts you in a very real way. Duping just kinda is like "man, I'm no better than these other punks, cause they all got Spread Needles too!" It's all in your head. Who cares?

What stealing does is make people take fewer risks, trust people less, and not use the cool weapons they've found COOLER weapons that they can now hide for fear of being stolen. I don't see any advantage at all to it, other than if you really wanna be a prick then you can be one pretty easily. I don't remember anybody on EQ complaining about how Verant FORCES them to play fair with a trade system. This is cause the majority of players don't want to be stolen from. I remember a bug in trade system that let somebody switch an item for another before the trade went through. Guess how long that bug stayed in before it got fixed? And NOBODY bitched about how this wasn't realistic or it wouldn't let people act the way they want to.

Duping sucks, but only for the guy that is also probably lvl 100 via Gameshark and will get tired of the game within a couple days. Anybody else that is bothered by this is just letting themself get upset.

I apologize for any offensive language, but this topic just seems so damn obvious to me and yet people seem to rather be stolen from then see someone have a gun that MAY have not been earned.

[Acel]

First of all, PSO is NOT just a game about finding rares and flaunting them Online when you reach lvl 100. If you think that TOO MANY rares ruin the game then STOP PLAYING FOR YOUR OWN GOODNESS SAKE!
Japanese players know that Americans are cheating, but DO THEY whine & complain like you Scarab? If somebody wants to dupe, let him be! Does it REALLY affect your game so much? Or is there actually some PRIDE problem here? IS IT NECESSARY to be "recognised" with a HARD EARNED "super rare" in your posession(collecting dust maybe even when you own it) that others can only dream of(because they cant have it to dupe it), in order to enjoy the game online? Im sorry, Phantasy Star Online is definitely much more that that.

So what if those cheaters duped 1 million Stag Cutlery(watever)? Ok, "Market" value drops and you get all that crap. Well, YOU CAN CHOOSE not to trade with them anyway if you think that can stop them! Get your own Rare at your own pace then...300++ hrs, clear all quests lvl 100 Skyly char blah blah blah yada yada yada. Who's stopping you? Oh, of course we all know its because you guys that are whining are the ones that are all green with envy to start of with. For 2 cts, I'm sure there are many players out there like me who CANT BE BOTHERED with rares. WHO CARES IF THAT LVL 21 HUMAR HAS A DOUBLE SABER?!? To tell you the truth, IT WILL DEFINITELY NOT MAKE THE GAME ANY LESS FUN if there were NO rares or when the servers are flooded with 1 million Magical Pieces and Pan Arms Blade. And lets say(I know someone will point this out eventually)if people starts popping up with a Spread Needle, what are you going you do? Simply ask them to stop, POLITELY. And if not, just leave the game with the current bunch of players and remake a new game with "No Spread Needle Pls" as your game name! Make a password and mail it to the rest of the group if you have to(esp if you want to stop the incident from reoccuring). Im sure there's a way, if you think HARD enough.

One main thing here, when you go online with a game like PSO, it isnt just about playing a game anymore. There are many things you have to observe esp when you socialise. Stealing is definitely the number 1 Nonos if you really want to make some "true" friends. So puuleaze~! Nobody come and tell me all those crap about making the game more exciting if you can steal... Do you know its exciting to break someone's nose too? Try it. Really.

To make this post relevant to the Original topic...
Imagine one of these two senarios happened in the future, tell me which one you guys feel is worse(and that would be my answer):

1. Months after the offical launch, thieves are lurking everywhere. At the Japanese servers, nobody wants to play with a "stranger/gaijin" anymore. Nobody is willing to make friends online. Everyone in your game has to be your cousin/your next door neighbour/your brother's friend/your girlfriends brother or your Father's other long lost illegitimate child etc. Every game needs a password. And if a Japanese happened to loose his stuff to a Gaijin, he'll simply infiltrate another game in the US servers and steal some goodies back from another unsuspecting victim. Hooray.
This is not revenge in their eyes, it is justice. GaijinChuBatsuGumi is officially formed. Then in retaliation, the Americans came up with the "Japanese sucks this" and the "Japanese sucks that" game names and the Europeans joined in thinking that its SO cool. Soon, the whole world goes to war in 2002 after a verbal confrontation broke out, as one of the Japanese generals got robbed by the Secretary of the White House and a German general took sides...

2. A year has passed. Duplication went unstopped, Gladiator Spike is now considered a common rare. Every Tom,Dick and Harry has it, even a level 1 Newbie Humar. Scape doll? What for? Why bother to pick up a Magical Piece from a corpse when you have a dozen in your bank already? And Why trade even when you can just get anything from everyone and anyone when you ask for it. Who would mind giving away rares when it means nothing now? Remember those times when you have to go through those stupid procedures just to get the deal done? My, Im sure everyone had a good laugh. 3 Cheers to the thieves! And what about Spread Needle? "3 sec kill" Players-for-hire have became a trend...


Ps: scarab, your life must have been pretty sad not being able to trust people other than your small circle of friends...and yeah I hope you carry on stealing with the rest of your life if you wanna be the "bad guy", I mean if that is what makes you happy...(which is of course the most important thing)

[Heero_Yuy]

Well Acel i must say i agree with well everything you said. I do realize that i do keep rares with me that i barely use and now i know why.TY for showing us all how vain we r now off to drop some items.

[segagameplay]

i have to again point out if sonic team didnt want stealing to be possible they would not have included 10,000 lines of code to include it.

[SuperSubZero]

I was always under the impression that the characters in the PSO universe were a little more noble and honest. People who willingly play as theives apparently didn't bother to read the backstory; the idea that Pioneer2 doesn't have the resources to continue looking for a new planet, and it will take cooperation to defeat the evil on Ragol to make it a suitable relocation spot.

I mentioned once before that in many cases the personality one portrays in the game tends to reflect a player's real personality. If you play honorably, heal and revive teammates, protect weaker characters, and dive in front of a Force to protect them from a Delsaber, that is one reflection. If you act like a prick and steal and item whore and spam for trades and dupe items and annoy everyone.. well, that may just be another reflection. I tend to play the former.

-SSZ

[ScaraB]

People! People!

Did you guys even really read my posts in this thread? All of them?

DID I EVER SAY I STEAL? LOL, I've never stolen anything, sorry.

I think I explained my opinions very well. But I guess I can offer a recap.

* Stealing - Like it or not Sonic Team designed the game this way. Dismissing it as a "bug they didn't have time to fix" is ludicrous.

Again, I like the fact that weapons can be stolen in CERTAIN SITUATIONS that are usually avoidable. Like I already said, I personally think it adds a little flavor to the game. I think it makes the dynamic between players a little different. Look if no one could steal, then everyone is a good guy by default. It becomes meaningless. SINCE THE POSSIBILITY TO STEAL IS THERE, NOT STEALING WHEN YOU COULD HAVE BECOMES SO MUCH MORE SIGNIFICANT.

Feel free of course to disagree, but at least think about what I'm saying.

Like the old saying goes, you can't have the good without the bad. Of course theivery only leads to a bad reputation, but to me it adds more spice to the mix to know that theiving scoundrels are out there.

AGAIN:
Theft can be avoided.

Theft was deliberately made possible by Sonic Team.

IMO, it broadens the options, makes things more interesting, and makes being a "good guy" actually mean something because you have the choice.

* Duping.
I'm sorry but once you've put in a lot of hours, I have over 200, looking for and finding rares is the main thing that keeps you coming back to PSO. Well, my opinion anyway.

There's nothing you can do about duping, its consequences are unavoidable.

RARE ITEMS BECOME MORE COMMON THROUGH DUPING. Okay, we can all agree on that right? Its a simple fact.

What makes rare items special? THEIR RARITY!! Yes! Duping takes this away.

Sooo you say, "don't trade then!". Well, THAT SUCKS. Sonic Team obviously made the game to encourage trading. Trading for legit items is (was) fun! So because of CHEATERS I should just not trade, and BE HAPPY ABOUT IT? That's utterly ridiculous.

Duping has ruined Trading

Duping has devalued Rarity

Duping IS SIMPLY NOT HOW THE GAME WAS MEANT TO BE PLAYED. IT IS CHEATING.

I really don't know what else I could say. This post and my first couple really explain my position well, I feel, If you read them thoroughly and consider what I'm saying.

Just my opinions, take em or leave em. But at least bother to read them if you're going to make comments directed at me (cough* Acel * cough).

[Cowboybebop]

I feel Stealing is worse than Duping but I feel duping has a bigger negative effect on the game than stealing. With stealing you could just make it known this guy is a thief (sephiroth lvl 100 is a thief silquid is a thief) but with duping you have no control over what that person does, only sega has control and it's time for them to step in. I have acquired a lot of good weapons and at first I was excited, but when I started hearing all of this duping and gameshark stuff it made me fell stupid because when I actually found something rare and traded it thinking I got a good deal I probably just contributed to someone duping. And all of these items I got are probably duped, but it's kind of silly I can take on dark faultz and win because have strong weapons weapons I probably wouldnt have if it wasnt for dupers. This kills the game somewhat for me because I like a challenge, and to feel like I earned something

[NikoN]

* Stealing... supposed to be in PSO

* Duping.... NOT supposed to be in PSO

...'nuff said

[Ratsmack]

Congratulate me, I read every post on this. Has my opinion changed? Ha ha ha ha ha...NO. Basically, most of the arguments made that duping is worse is that Sonic Team WANTED people to steal. OF COURSE NOT. Here, let me tell you something. You know when you die? Ya see, that can be avoided. It is YOUR mistake when you die. YOU messed up, YOU deserve to be punished. Therefore, Sonic Team said "Well, let's make them lose something for it." The money went without saying. Now, you needed to lose an item. It would be cruel to have you lose your armor, because then you'd probably have to lose your add-ons with it. That's a possible FIVE items lost. Eek. So, Sonic Team said "How about the MAG?" No way! People could have painstakingly earned enough money to buy the best items for it, only to have it go *poof?* No, no, no! The shield? Well, even the Celestial Shield isn't worth much. It wouldn't be ENOUGH to lose. Then, some genius in the team said "The weapon!" And so it was done. Now, even if this is not exactly what happened, you HAVE to realize the goal of a company is NOT to make a game that pisses people off utterly. They didn't WANT people to be stolen from, they just found it an unfortunate side-effect of having to lose something due to your error in getting yourself killed. Scarab, do you think Sonic Team bent over the programming console and said "Muhahaha! Let's make it so people can be stolen from! Muhahaha! Then we'll piss off enough people to have them quit and advise others to not buy our game! Muhahaha!" Ho boy...you're one smart cookie, then. Now, as for you duping very very bad, cheating...eh.... people, there was another argument made. It ruins the game...it effects every player. *raises hand* I don't give shit. I'm sure there's others that don't, either. *Poof* one argument down the drain. Now, I'd like to ask, HOW does it ruin the game? If I'm running around with my Spread Needle and shooting down baddies with a smile on my face, if someone comes in and tells me: "WHAT?! Spread Needles are worth shit!" Does my attack power go down? Do the enemies just yawn and ignore me? NO. I KEEP ON killing them with a smile on my face. The fun of destroying the baddy is still there. The fun of collecting items is too. COLLECT THEM. Then tell yourself "Wow, I collected them!" And be happy. Just because someone else duped himself all the items within an hour doesn't mean he collected them. It means he GOT them. YOU collected them. Just because they're of lesser value doesn't mean they just suddenly jump out of your hands and say "Ha, ha, hundreds of people already have me!" The game goes on, you can still kill monsters with a weapon of lesser value. You can still collect weapons and items of lesser value. NOTHING changes. JUST the economy. Personally, I never use meseta for anything but buying stuff at the stores. And, Sonic Team didn't want people to get pissed at their game. That's a very baaaaad thing to do. In fact, they added the extra challenge of having to retrieve your weapon so people wouldn't get pissed at how dying doesn't hurt you at all. Stealing leaves you with no weapon. Duping leaves you with the weapon, just a lower price tag on it. Get real, people.