Braver Low Damage?

[renrinken]

Err, I was just saying that the game as a whole needs an overhaul in the regard, not that the players need to change.

To be honest I was just being an asshole and arguing for the sake of arguing so sorry to you all for that.

Yeah I was just trying to make the point that variety exists in the game, BR holds great tools outside of damage. But people will choose to ignore these tools when people as a whole only care about damage. I feel Katana has a decent variety of CC, mobility, and damage. All three can be used effectively. But if all someone cares about is big numbers, they won't even care to learn about the CC and Mobility aspects.

However something like the bow just flat of lacks variety. Very little CC or support elements, mobility is sort of a joke, so all you have is damage. So only choice is to choose highest damage PA and spam it 24/7. A few other weapon types has this problem as well but I feel Bow is the worst offender.

But worse of all is the Skill Trees. It 100% decided to raise damage, thats all. No Support, No Utility, nothing. And ones that do exist of some trees like Hu or Gu are a huge joke in the first place. Combine that with the Pay Wall to respec makes experimentation a very scary prospect.

I am not saying your wrong at all, and I certainly wasn't targeting your post. Just making the observation that often time variety exists but it is simply overlooked because your pressured by a community to only think about damage. Utility should always come at the sacrifice of damage, but we should be in a place where that is "ok".

[Kondibon]

Yeah I was just trying to make the point that variety exists in the game, BR holds great tools outside of damage. But people will choose to ignore these tools when people as a whole only care about damage. I feel Katana has a decent variety of CC, mobility, and damage. All three can be used effectively. But if all someone cares about is big numbers, they won't even care to learn about the CC and Mobility aspects.

However something like the bow just flat of lacks variety. Very little CC or support elements, mobility is sort of a joke, so all you have is damage. So only choice is to choose highest damage PA and spam it 24/7. A few other weapon types has this problem as well but I feel Bow is the worst offender.

But worse of all is the Skill Trees. It 100% decided to raise damage, thats all. No Support, No Utility, nothing. And ones that do exist of some trees like Hu or Gu are a huge joke in the first place. Combine that with the Pay Wall to respec makes in experimentation a very scary prospect.

I am not saying your wrong at all, and I certainly wasn't targeting your post. Just making the observation that often time variety exists but it is simply overlooked because your pressured by a community to only think about damage.

Err, I know the variety is there, it just isn't NEEDED, which is the problem with PSO2 (and a lot of other modern mmos)

I agree about the paywall stuff though. I think that's a huge problem for a game with such an emphasis on character builds. GW2, and even DCUO, allow you to change your character up at will for a small ingame fee, allowing a lot more room to experiment and play with stuff.

I don't think it's just pressure from the community but the game itself. Zipzo is right, killing things IS the best form of CC. The only time that isn't the case is when it takes longer to kill something without control. I could argue that every moment your team doesn't have to worry about getting hit they can focus on damage, but it takes the same amount of time to just kill stuff anyway, so... really, what's the point of utilizing all this?

I just get lost in the moment, all I really should have been saying is that I would like for the game to give us a reason and a way to use support and CC effectively. But then there might be people complaining that they can't faceroll stuff, or we'd get ye old holy trinity, and that would break the flow of the game.

[Shiyo]

Hien Tsubaki simply does not do the the damage Sakura does. It's also practical in a lot less situations than Sakura because of its range. So why use Hien Tsubaki? It's good for X situation when Sakura simply gets the job done all the same (likely faster)?

Sakura cuts a corner that none of the other PAs do. It gets right to the damage part, the part of the PA that anybody actually cares about, and it does more of it than any of the other PAs available.

It's noble and I'm sure appreciated by the Katana spirits that you'd like to defend all the PAs for their uses but it's uneccessary. SEGA is capable of bad design (how do we not all know this), and there doesn't need to be a grand purpose etched or scribbled in to the mechanics of everything that players need enlightenment to discover. The short of it is that Sakura just ended up being a whole lot better than the other PAs in almost every way aside from inflicting flinches or launching, and nobody cares about those things in most cases if using the PA results in death of the mob in a timely manner anyhow.

Positively comparing Hien to Sakura because Sakura has to "charge" is also obtuse. If anything I'd almost say that's a negligible point because you can move yourself in to position while holding Sakura. Jump > Sakura is one of the most common techniques in practice, so I'm not sure I even understand why flying mobs all the sudden become easier with a PA like Hien which has a bum-slut retarded moving hit box.

Asigiri doesn't do any damage either, to those who were promoting it. Its hit box isn't even that good. The only interesting part about Asigiri is the rush, but its range is mediocre, and not being able to cancel the horribly long animation of sword swipes that amounts to just about 1/2 the damage of Sakura pretty much kills any and all point of using the PA ever. Even if you use it as an approach you could probably have the mob simply dead just by normally running up and using Sakura instead of waiting out the Asigiri that will not kill the mob and then using Sakura.

If you're only spamming Sakura in every situation on every mob you fight you are not playing Braver at 100% and are actually dealing less damage in a lot of situations than someone utilizing every katana PA(besides gekka).

Two examples:

Malmoth, Tsukimi to stay in the air on his horn and autoattack + tsukiming it, 90%+ weakpoint uptime, massive DPS boost.

Cougar Robot thingy: When you kill his first form, and he comes back alive(after 50% hp?) and gets super fast and learns new moves like the leg dash thing, he moves around so much and attacking so often/fast that you can't really keep up with him at all, you will do much more damage with Asagiri because of it's gap closer, if you use it properly and time it well between his attacks. Sakura still has a use here, but ONLY using sakura will lower your damage a lot, because you don't have the mobility/avoidance to keep up with him as he's dashing around moving super fast shooting/throwing things at you and attacking you. You're also invul to projectiles while mid-dash.

Asagiri does about the same damage as Sakura, maybe 5-10% less, but has utility to make up for it, it doesn't do zero damage. You don't spam it though, but it's a great tool when used properly and still does good damage.

Hien is great when kiting because of it's range, you can stay outside of some scary mobs attack range and still melee it with this PA, like the persona's. It's also superior to Sakura on Falz arms, and any situation you need to stay in the air for max damage. You can pump out your entire PP bar without falling to the ground, and it does about the same damage as Sakura, maybe 5-10% less.

[jooozek]

However something like the bow just flat of lacks variety. Very little CC or support elements, mobility is sort of a joke, so all you have is damage. So only choice is to choose highest damage PA and spam it 24/7. A few other weapon types has this problem as well but I feel Bow is the worst offender.

very little cc? Gravity Point
very little mobility? you move all the time while shooting, you can dash forward with Kamikaze arrow
want damage? for groups go for Torrential Arrow, single targets close to you? Kamikaze Arrow, far away targets? Master Shot
lacks variety? damn right it does no it doesnt but this is PSOW afterall

[Zipzo]

Tbh though most people come to forum and class discussions for best minmax damage output. If they wanted variety and offer things outside of damage such as CC and support then they just do what want and not care about the opinion of others. BR holds a great deal of utility outside of damage, but people ignore it because all that matters to them is damage. It like people who look down at WL because of its low damage even though it has some of the greatest CC in the game.

I do agree with you, I run /te sub class for most melee because support is just as important as damage to me. But I certainly wouldn't come to the forums just to hear people tell me "yes, support is important to", nor will I even hear that from 99% of people here. It about understanding exactly who are the type of people who make and contribute to class threads in the first place.

When exactly did anybody say Wirelances did bad damage? Holding Current is one of the strongest PAs in the entire game along with Other Spin being one of the best utility/damage PAs for both HU/FIs and FI/HUs.

Yes, there is a certain emphasis on damage above all else, but remember the thread your posting in. The title of it is "Braver Low Damage?". I'm guessing the discussion is likely going to go in the direction of how to increase your damage. Not how to increase your usefulness by casting Deband Cut.

A lot of players find solace in upping their game. That's the fun part. There's no reason to speak as if these kinds of players aren't having fun discussing and hashing these things out, that's actually half of the fun for players like me. The second half is the actual putting in to action this theory craft and seeing a lot of positive effect from it.

And again, the same point reiterated, utility means nothing when it's not necessary.

If you're only spamming Sakura in every situation on every mob you fight you are not playing Braver at 100% and are actually dealing less damage in a lot of situations than someone utilizing every katana PA(besides gekka).

Two examples:

Malmoth, Tsukimi to stay in the air on his horn and autoattack + tsukiming it, 90%+ weakpoint uptime, massive DPS boost.

Cougar Robot thingy: When you kill his first form, and he comes back alive(after 50% hp?) and gets super fast and learns new moves like the leg dash thing, he moves around so much and attacking so often/fast that you can't really keep up with him at all, you will do much more damage with Asagiri because of it's gap closer, if you use it properly and time it well between his attacks. Sakura still has a use here, but ONLY using sakura will lower your damage a lot, because you don't have the mobility/avoidance to keep up with him as he's dashing around moving super fast shooting/throwing things at you and attacking you. You're also invul to projectiles while mid-dash.

Yeah no...if you are using anything other than Sakura for the purpose of doing damage you are not playing Braver at 100%. There is factual proof to back this up, none to back up your claims, if not plenty of contrary evidence. On Mammoth you can just break his face. Cougar will no longer be in the game soon enough, and still, Sakura is simply more effective at creating his leg breaks quicker.

[Zenobia]

If you're only spamming Sakura in every situation on every mob you fight you are not playing Braver at 100% and are actually dealing less damage in a lot of situations than someone utilizing every katana PA(besides gekka)

No he isn't. You're not bad at the class for using one PA in every situation we are just using what is more efficient.

Remember you play for fun while most play to get things done and move onto the next task at hand. There a big difference between the 2 one that should not get mixed in a Efficiency vs Play for fun mind set.

Example: Assault Buster one shots all trash mobs.

[gigawuts]

And again, the same point reiterated, utility means nothing when it's not necessary.

Point out where anyone said or suggested otherwise, because all I've seen is people saying pretty much "Sakura is not the best PA for every single situation in the game."

[Kondibon]

very little cc? Gravity Point
very little mobility? you move all the time while shooting, you can dash forward with Kamikaze arrow
want damage? for groups go for Torrential Arrow, single targets close to you? Kamikaze Arrow, far away targets? Master Shot
lacks variety? damn right it does no it doesnt but this is PSOW afterall

Gravity point is one PA, as apposed to all the launches... launcher has, or all the stuns etc on melee weapons. So yes, it lacks CC

I agree that it has mobility Though I don't think it needs it, seeing as how it's a ranged weapon, and it still has more than Rifle did when the game first started.

[jooozek]

Gravity point is one PA, as apposed to all the launches... launcher has, or all the stuns etc on melee weapons. So yes, it lacks CC

I agree that it has mobility Though I don't think it needs it, seeing as how it's a ranged weapon, and it still has more than Rifle did when the game first started.

launchers aren't a braver weapon

[renrinken]

launchers aren't a braver weapon

If your only comparing bow to other BR ranged weapons then sure....Bow is best range weapon in the game.