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  1. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hrith View Post
    Several of those points are non-issues or simply wrong.
    Do not blame the game for what is the players' fault.

    Well, yeah. Some good ideas, but the main problem is enemy HP being too low, really.

    Nope. Techer is an amazing support class. Just because supporting in PSO2 is not as stupidly easy as it was in PSO1 and PSU does not mean it's literally worse, just more of a bother. If you are not playing in an MPA of 12 people (and even then, it helps a ton to have resta/megiverse spammers in some of the emergency MPAs) or in a mission where monsters are 10~15 levels below you, supporting matters a lot.
    I have players - Japanese and Westerners alike - that thank me at the end of missions (usually advanced, obv) because of my support.
    For reference, I mostly think about AQ gameplay with 4 players. As mentioned above I explained why Nazan wasn't really supportive all that much. Throughout all of my gameplay, shifta has never really made much of a notable difference either.

    In emergency MPAs, the only time most Fo or Te cast resta is when they get hurt themselves. It's nice because when they heal then, they heal others. I myself try to keep my teammates healed, however, this is often negligible or even useless because they already keep themselves healed quite well and oftentimes I'm wasting a cast healing while they drink a dimate at the same time. I could've just killed a group of mobs instead.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hrith View Post
    I am not sure I understand that. Megiverse is absolutely awesome, it's so good it should be nerfed (really 25% of your damage, I can heal for over 10,000 HP on a regular basis, when my characters have 800~1000 HP).
    Also not affected by the output reduction of Friend and Support Partners.

    Swarmed by enemies? Cast Megiverse, no one dies... or not.
    Megiverse is more or less the same as resta. At lower level gameplay it's much much much much worse than resta because people do like 300 damage with PAs. But that's like level 20-40 stuff. In AQ, there is no reason to cast megiverse instead of resta. Let's say during a good exit burst, there's monsters with ranged attacks pecking at us. There's no difference with what you use to heal usually. Resta will give the caster a more immediate heal however, over the Fo who casted megiverse and died because they then had to attack again to actually gain the benefit. There are many situations where I only survived by casting resta on myself to outdo the DPS from a boss attack or mob swarm. Had I casted megiverse, I would've died because I would've had to attack to actually heal. Cast resta? It heals you more than once and can often save you from situations where you're about to get chained to death.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hrith View Post
    Yes and no. The tree itself is not useless at all; ice actually receives the biggest bonus of all elements if you specialise in it. It's just too rare to face monsters weak to ice to get an ice tree, unless you have three FO trees.

    People who claim the ice techniques are bad are nubs who are barely good enough to cast Zondeel all day to reduce team DPS, their opinion is irrelevant.
    Agreed, one of the biggest problems is that there is only one area with enemies actually weak to ice. Its useage is negligible for this reason.

    I liked the proposal a page back, to make barta chargeable for taller pillars of ice and stuff. Heck, perhaps make it a gimmick of ice spells to have two levels of charged attacks that greatly increases the chance of freezing, gives more damage of course, just are slow to cast as heck. Also, the freezing is tougher and doesn't break in one hit

    How about this: A skill that makes ice attacks refresh the freeze status on frozen enemies, instead of the Freeze Keep we have now. A one skill point thing, preferably buried under other skills. This alone is good enough. Maybe make ice also a little more sturdy against non-ice attacks in-case the party is meleeing or ranging the enemies, y'know.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hrith View Post
    cf Ice trees, it's not a valid point unless you're playing in situations in which you make the game too easy (monsters lower level, 12/12 MPAs, exit bursts).
    Explain to my why I would choose not to play in situations in which my experience rates and monetary gain chances are optimal, over a situation in which experience is lower, monetary game is lower, the game takes longer, and the game is harder?

    There is no reason to tank in MPAs or exit bursts and using a tank build will be universally useless compared to killing things faster in a game where it's already very easy to survive. As a Fo I find it extremely easy to survive despite apparently being the glass cannon class. I would never invest SP in something that raises defense when it's completely unnecessary. Not to mention 5 moons per player, which has been addressed earlier in the thread's discussions.

    SEGA has increased support for making solo play more viable, but only by doing things like making the game in general easier and reducing requirements for level cap increase COs (90 drops to 20 drops y'know).

    What they really need to do to support solo play is make a mode for it, like story mode, where it's intended to or only possible to be played solo, that offers decent rewards. This could be important anyway, as there's much less MPAs out there anyway. Half a year ago, there was always people running the free explores. Now there's almost always nobody or just one party, 12 MPA are rare outside of EQ.

    As I mentioned above, "why choose slower, less efficient, harder, less gain" over "faster, efficient, easier, more gain".

    I would not actually like to be saying that "oh I want SEGA to keep everything easy and release more easy content".

    What I want is something "slow", hard, with fantastic gain for the work you're doing. A mode where you have to be careful, can't just one hit everything and kill the boss in 10 seconds, where a tank build may actually be important, rather than "something you can do just for kicks at the cost of killing things slower".

    Massive hunter (or whichever is the Super Armor skill) is something that I would really love to see as useful. I absolutely love super armor type berserker things, but in this game, there's absolutely no point to put SP into that at this point in time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hrith View Post
    Once again, only of you are a tool who does not have his or her own opinion. There is not one 'best' build and never will be. A build that allows player A to perform well, would not do the same with player B.
    There are some core skills that 'everyone should get', but there is a lot of liberty in what an excellent build can be, for any class.

    The proof is in-game, anyway. I see many different builds and players that perform just as well as the others.
    There are mathematically better builds than other builds. Unless you're saying that a FoGu can perform as well as a FoFi. Not to mention a lot of other trash builds that make no sense to run like RaFo or something random.

    And back to what you're really talking about is skill trees. If you can play a Ra that's invested entirely in traps instead of what people generally get, as fast as another Ra, fine. If you can play a Gu without SRoll arts as well as a Gu who has it, I'd be really interested in what skill tree you're using that makes up for having half the damage of the other. If you can play a Fo with no actual investment in elemental mastery as well as those who do, go ahead and show me.
    Last edited by Chdata; Sep 4, 2013 at 02:17 PM.
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  2. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dextro View Post
    Zondeel + Gi/Ramegid is too much setup?
    What do you guys do these days, just spam zonde everywhere?
    Lol no I was thinking of namegid, my bad ^_^

    I sometimes zondeel and ramegid it rains down so much. I also use it to poison catas after their tails break since where they come up is predictable.

  3. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by Link1275 View Post
    I have to agree here. Inazuma is probably one the worst FOs I've seen on paper from what I've noticed in their posts.
    Not sure if you are being sarcastic or not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chdata View Post
    Ramegid is nice if paired with zondeel, otherwise it misses too often.



    You talk as if switching between a fire mastery tree and lightning mastery tree gives you a 40% bonus against their respective weaknesses, instead of having only a single tree.

    First off:

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...VE&output=html

    Yeah, most enemies take 20% more damage from their weak element, some 30% and a few 50%.

    Second off, the actual difference has been calculated quite nicely by UnLucky.

    http://www.pso-world.com/forums/show...3&postcount=22

    However, having a separate skill tree for ice, wind, and light, and possibly dark, is silly as there is no special bonus like fire's speed charge or lightning's PP save. I like to attribute fire's speed charge to being a 2x damage bonus, because you cast spells twice as fast. This is a burst, though some people are apparently able to sustain it with clever PB and mag usage and obviously PP convert. If anything, this would make fire tree alone mathematically stronger than any other skill tree, if you can manage that kind of thing. I myself haven't tried it, but if UnLucky can confirm with video or I get around to testing it, it blows lightning out of the water even if it's lightning against its elemental weakness because 200% is better than 20%.


    And besides that point, with just one skill tree, you can do fine. Fos basically one hit most mobs already anyway, and with 3 other people, things die faster. The 40% bonus you speak of is negligible.

    My best example of this is a time I was partying with 3 other Fos in Sub Tunnels AQ. I was using nazan for the 20% damage bonus, which is a lot right? For the entire party that is.

    Until one Fo made the statement that they already all die in two hits and that the bonus is really just a waste of a cast. And judging by all our 15+ minute PSE bursts, it is negligible.

    Also, Techer, not Techter.
    40% damage from element mastery and 20% damage from element weak hit. If a force who only has a lightning tree uses ice techs, they will be doing 40% less damage than a force who is using an ice tree.

    You say 40% more damage is negligible, but I don't think you really believe that. Do you grind your equipment to +10? Do you use any latent abilities? Do you add specific affixes to your equipment? Do you pick up meseta? Do you use boost tickets? Do you hunt rares? Do you hunt photon art discs? I could go on and on. You probably do some or all of these things, even though all of these pale in comparison to having multiple skill trees.

    If 40% more damage doesn't matter, then why do you care so much about 10% more damage or 5% more damage? Hypocrite?

    And if I am wrong and you don't care about any of these things, congratulations. You must be very weak, which should be a good thing to you.

    Oh by the way, PSO2 has something called bosses. Can you kill all the bosses in one hit with zonde?

    *edit*

    Oh, and yeah, techtor is probably a better way to spell it. I will try to stop spelling it techter. The pronunciation is the same though. Techer, on the other hand, is just plain wrong.
    Last edited by Inazuma; Sep 5, 2013 at 08:05 AM.
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  4. #24
    Destructive by nature. Link1275's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inazuma View Post
    Not sure if you are being sarcastic or not.
    I was not being sarcastic in the slightest. What you've been saying, makes you sound like your precious multiple skill trees are terrible on paper and probably worse in effect. FYI a Lightning specced force does NOT use ice techs on ice weak enemies. That would be pointless! As for your Zondele arguments, that tech is practically useless half the time as you have to switch to a talis to make the most out of it. Use your head, rod+Zondele=Enemies all around you. Not to mention that each time those enemies take damage they get pushed further and further out. Most enemies also already stay close enough that you can hit 2-3 enemies with a single zonde more than half the time as well.

  5. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by Link1275 View Post
    I was not being sarcastic in the slightest. What you've been saying, makes you sound like your precious multiple skill trees are terrible on paper and probably worse in effect. FYI a Lightning specced force does NOT use ice techs on ice weak enemies. That would be pointless! As for your Zondele arguments, that tech is practically useless half the time as you have to switch to a talis to make the most out of it. Use your head, rod+Zondele=Enemies all around you. Not to mention that each time those enemies take damage they get pushed further and further out. Most enemies also already stay close enough that you can hit 2-3 enemies with a single zonde more than half the time as well.
    It sounds like you don't use zondeel from a rod or a talis. That's pretty bad. There are ways to use zondeel with a rod and not get slaughtered from enemies all around you. And sometimes you are better off using zondeel from a talis. That's the thing. You are so determined to pick a single tech to use in every situation in the game. Casting zonde from a rod is not always the best thing you can do.

    The way I play force is to try to use what's best for whatever the current situation is. Sometimes that means casting zonde from a rod, other times I'm using gibarta, or I could be using a talis. Different techs and different weapons can be better depending on the situation.

    And you also need to factor in what your party members are doing. Even if you are using a lightning tree, you could be better off using fire techs in the Tundra, if another force is trying to use zondeel.

    *edit*
    Quote Originally Posted by gigawuts View Post
    Weren't you the one that threw a big stink over PP Restorate vs. PP Restraint? I'd think you'd be all kinds of fanatic about getting this straight.

    http://translate.google.com/#en/ja/protector
    protector -> プロテクター
    Any part of this word look familiar?
    テクニック
    Any part of this word look familiar?
    Last edited by Inazuma; Sep 5, 2013 at 09:36 AM.
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  6. #26
    Destructive by nature. Link1275's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inazuma View Post
    It sounds like you don't use zondeel from a rod or a talis. That's pretty bad. There are ways to use zondeel with a rod and not get slaughtered from enemies all around you. And sometimes you are better off using zondeel from a talis. That's the thing. You are so determined to pick a single tech to use in every situation in the game. Casting zonde from a rod is not always the best thing you can do.

    The way I play force is to try to use what's best for whatever the current situation is. Sometimes that means casting zonde from a rod, other times I'm using gibarta, or I could be using a talis. Different techs and different weapons can be better depending on the situation.

    And you also need to factor in what your party members are doing. Even if you are using a lightning tree, you could be better off using fire techs in the Tundra, if another force is trying to use zondeel.

    *edit*

    テクニック
    Any part of this word look familiar?
    If I'm partying with a force trying to use Zondeel in the tundra it means that I almost officially lost it. Zondele is not that great. And I am not there to support the hunters, fighters, and rangers. That is what Techer is for. Force is for nuking mobs in under 5 seconds. If you want to support the rest of the party so badly go play techer and use shifta and deband on them, oh wait that's right it's worthless.

    Also, please quit being a p2w-noskill-noob-idiot.

  7. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by Link1275 View Post
    If I'm partying with a force trying to use Zondeel in the tundra it means that I almost officially lost it. Zondele is not that great. And I am not there to support the hunters, fighters, and rangers. That is what Techer is for. Force is for nuking mobs in under 5 seconds. If you want to support the rest of the party so badly go play techer and use shifta and deband on them, oh wait that's right it's worthless.

    Also, please quit being a p2w-noskill-noob-idiot.
    I'm sorry but you have no idea what you're talking about. ._.

    You use Zondeel for its suction function so you can kill an entire group in 1 or 2 techniques instead of having to pick them off individually (or at least in multiple groups), not for its damage... (well you can use it for its damage, but that's saved for lightning weak stuff usually).

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Z-0 View Post
    I'm sorry but you have no idea what you're talking about. ._.

    You use Zondeel for its suction function so you can kill an entire group in 1 or 2 techniques instead of having to pick them off individually (or at least in multiple groups), not for its damage... (well you can use it for its damage, but that's saved for lightning weak stuff usually).
    Big mob in one tiny place at the risk of getting butchered, or 1-2 hits one everything spread out? I usually pick the latter unless it's a really big mob as it's not worth risking getting slaughtered.

  9. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by Z-0 View Post
    I'm sorry but you have no idea what you're talking about. ._.

    You use Zondeel for its suction function so you can kill an entire group in 1 or 2 techniques instead of having to pick them off individually (or at least in multiple groups), not for its damage... (well you can use it for its damage, but that's saved for lightning weak stuff usually).
    Finally someone else who gets it!
    Quit PSO2

  10. #30

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    Use a Talis in that case, it will be faster than picking everything off one-by-one.

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