(UQ) So It's Going to Be Phantasy Hunter Online 2 After All?

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

Not even a complaint about Additional Bullet being the best option for melee classes in many situations back in VH.

I admit I completely forgot to mention that during the history lesson, and yes, I used a lamda jaried back then, and I wanted a gunbraver so bad as Fi/Hu.

[Shadowth117]

The was one class, one weapon.

Pre-nerf shunka didn't last 6 months, and even level-headed bravers wanted it nerfed.
Katanas didn't have hatou until the 3rd area of episode 2. Shunka, and 20 second invincibility didn't come until after that, which was all late last year.

That has nothing to do with whether these things were good or not. They were all out for a fairly decent chunk of time. But then, that wasn't exactly my point anyways.

It was the choice method to kill anything before ranged characters blew it up because of gap closing+damage properties; something unique to partisan for far too long, and pigeonholed tons S atk users into needing a lambda patty lumeria to keep up with things like zonde Fo/Fi in the one-shot department. Lightning Fo/Fi being massively popular back then.

So yes, part of the reason why it was so popular was because Fo/Fis made it a necessary evil. Using assbuster to get from spawn to spawn, and even kill something before it got zonde one shot by Fos was part of the reason people liked assbuster. I guess we have Fos to thank for 1 of the 3-4 reasons melee was pigeonholed into needing a partisan.

Because cluster and other techs never do or did that either. And even if those weren't around, you'd still be left with the fact that ass buster swept through everything without much effort which would have lead people to using it to one shot enemies anyways. So not seeing how that mattered.

Using it on small enemies is a waste since they die in two ticks, and you're stuck in the animation.

It's only good on stunnable bosses, which of course isn't every boss.

I don't believe I ever tried to claim you should be using it on smaller enemies. Which reminds me, I probably should have mentioned how kanran knocks down enemies AND has more aoe than most techs.

But that's offtopic; nothing is likely to work on everything in the game and it would be silly if it did. But on anything holding current can be worked around on its retarded. I recall people duoing falz elder not long after he came out in around 2 minutes flat. And since its become stronger than that. So yeah.

... and required kissing range, and around twice the PP cost of most techs. You need 135 PP to even have the privalage of using it three times consecutively. Now it's a bad PA who's damage does not justify the PP cost anymore instead of being a situational one with literally the worst range in the game.

Except if you had the skill needed to use it, I know there are so many things that don't have that requirement that you can forget sometimes, you could use sit in the air in something's face stunlocking it to death by repeatedly beating its face in all the while maintaining pp because you're able to get easy normals off at almost the same time while right next to it. Even without it you're fine, but with ketos proi going you'd have yourself even more of a joke assuming you were able to pull off the move correctly.

Forgot to mention how Hu went from being generally bad outside of assbuster and over end (those didn't come until VH) with a skill tree no one really cared about with its two non-tech JA bonuses, to being good as long as you didn't use their weapons until episode 3.


Entire melee weapon categories fell by the wayside.
Only time techs as a whole did was at the SH release.

You're so right. Because numerous light techs, ice techs, and wind techs have never sucked.

Didn't even mention the power of element conversion, which I consider a major part of the cause elysion, a wand, had to be nerfed; before element conversion, uncharged ilbarta from elysion could one-shot non-weak small mobs. But sure, let's just give them another 25% damage multipier when their new techs are this strong.

Except that that was possible before element conversion? Elysion has always been very powerful if not the most available weapon.


Now in the end I'm not going to try to tell you the ep3 buffs were justified for force or ranger because they really weren't. But I do think you're heavily misunderstanding some things here.

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

Because cluster and other techs never do or did that either. And even if those weren't around, you'd still be left with the fact that ass buster swept through everything without much effort which would have lead people to using it to one shot enemies anyways. So not seeing how that mattered.

You're the one that brought up one specific PA on one specific weapon.

Since you missed the point, the popular options for non-ranged classes involved fast distance closing and damage (partisan being the only thing that did that for almost 2 years thanks to assbuster), or ranged attacks (addbullet) because enemies would generally die to Fos back then before a Fi/Hu even tries to use anything else.

Doesn't really need to be said that ranged generally had the advantage of engaging, and killing an enemy, and assbuster/addbullet was needed to even have a presence as Fi/Hu.

I don't believe I ever tried to claim you should be using it on smaller enemies.

You claimed it was broken.

I don't see PAs as niche as holding current with very specific viable uses as broken.

That's why I brought up how how it functions in mobbing (which is most of the game), and mentioned it does not work on bosses that do not have lengthy downtime phases.

'Broken' is when it's a one-move answer for almost anything in game, like pre-nerf shunka, or VH post buff/pre-nerf zonde, or WB which still fking exists for some reason.

Except if you had the skill needed to use it, I know there are so many things that don't have that requirement that you can forget sometimes, you could use sit in the air in something's face stunlocking it to death by repeatedly beating its face in all the while maintaining pp because you're able to get easy normals off at almost the same time while right next to it. Even without it you're fine, but with ketos proi going you'd have yourself even more of a joke assuming you were able to pull off the move correctly.

Did I say it was worthless? Did I say it was bad? I said it was situational. You know, niche, just like holding current. Try reading.

Also, it was the one thing knuckles were good for at the time.

Now it's a bad PA because of the lower damage, high PP cost, and other PAs being good opportunistic fast burst damage.

You're so right. Because numerous light techs, ice techs, and wind techs have never sucked.

Call me when the less than mediocre element techs are the only ones Fos can use.

That is not the same as "95% of X class is only good for their skill tree".

Why did most Fi sub Hu? No other class gave any striking multipliers at the time, and assault buster. That was pretty much it. Why did maidoll make those comics parodying Hus until now? Because 'generally ineffective/impractical' is a statement that applied to 90% of what Hu weapons could do at the time.

Except that that was possible before element conversion?

That's the point I was making. They got more power when they didn't need it.

Its why I'm believe in elysion's latent being a main class only skill for Te. Element conversion is too strong to be allowed to mix with ely's potential.

[Aine]

It's still entertaining to watch the developers cock up balance at every turn, but to be honest I don't care anymore, I'll just play whatever is best. I play fire Force now in TD and I'll play Bouncer in Ultimate or whatever's broken at the time. And that's fine.

[gigawuts]

It's still entertaining to watch the developers cock up balance at every turn, but to be honest I don't care anymore, I'll just play whatever is best. I play fire Force now in TD and I'll play Bouncer in Ultimate or whatever's broken at the time. And that's fine.

This is what ultimately must be done in this game to retain peace of mind, and I'm fairly certain it's the developers' intent that this is what players do anyway.

Everyone who careers as a specific class gets a dose of the limelight so they don't get too disenfranchised, and everyone who chases the best meta-whatever has to constantly follow the rotation around and around so they don't get too stagnant and too bored.

It's bad design IMO because better design would make everything fun and viable, but this is definitely effort-effective (like cost-effective, but with effort).

[Xaeris]

I'll wait and see how this actually works out before I go calling melee supremacy. We all already know that math isn't Sega's forte. I wouldn't even be a little bit surprised if it turned out Sega thinks they set up the numbers to give melee the advantage, but neglect that Force and Ranger still nuke everything to ashes. For evidence, just look at the recent Gunner changes. They thought their changes worked out to be a buff, only to be surprised that everyone was telling them they're an overall nerf.

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

Offtopic, but I actually thought of a way the attack on titan boss wouldn't be 'WB or abandon' like luther without needing to nerf WB and rebalance HP;

If the boss was comprised of entirely fragile breakable parts being the only way to damage him, that turn to extremely damage resistant/immune spots when destroyed, instead of having a giant 'hit me here!' core all fight, it really wouldn't matter if you did or didn't have WB. Overall kill speed wouldn't change much.

[Hexxy]

Offtopic, but I actually thought of a way the attack on titan boss wouldn't be 'WB or abandon' like luther without needing to nerf WB and rebalance HP;

If the boss was comprised of entirely fragile breakable parts being the only way to damage him, that turn to extremely damage resistant/immune spots when destroyed, instead of having a giant 'hit me here!' core all fight, it really wouldn't matter if you did or didn't have WB. Overall kill speed wouldn't change much.

It would but you know it's going to be your generic "break this for 2x and then wb for lulz" type of fight.

[Xaeris]

Don't forget, "inflict x status for express mode." My money is on freeze.

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

It would but you know it's going to be your generic "break this for 2x and then wb for lulz" type of fight.

Yeah, i know -_-