Bouncer Class Discussion

[Gamemako]

Sadly no.

Also, all bonuses are multiplicative, and latents imply the same requirements as what they are increasing (hitting break points or hitting with an elemental weakness, in this case)
No bonuses are added together. Such, elemental stance, elemental stance up, and your great strategic stance create an effect like 1.2 x 1.1 x 1.15 for a total bonus of 51.8% instead of the 45% one might expect

Out of curiosity, do you know offhand if (Great) Strategic Stance requires Elemental Stance at all? I believe that the Steadfast Reaper one doesn't even require Standing Snipe, so I'm a bit curious if this one requires Elemental Stance.

[Selphea]

You're the only person I see here claiming that techs are great DPS. You can find other statements to the opposite effect-- for examples,

Just so you know, afaik Jumpsuit doesn't even play Jet Boots Bo look for Perfect Chaos' or LonelyGaruga's posts though.

[Gamemako]

Just so you know, afaik Jumpsuit doesn't even play Jet Bootz Bo look for Perfect Chaos' or LonelyGaruga's posts though.

I'm back to March and still don't see any comments on the topic from Perfect Chaos, lol. Did find this gem from LonelyGaruga though which might be worth discussing at some point. I totally use Wide Ilzan.

[LonelyGaruga]

Out of curiosity, do you know offhand if (Great) Strategic Stance requires Elemental Stance at all? I believe that the Steadfast Reaper one doesn't even require Standing Snipe, so I'm a bit curious if this one requires Elemental Stance.

(Great) Elemental Stance boosts the effect of the skill Elemental Stance, thus it requires the skill to be learned. Steadfast Reaper boosts shooting damage while standing still, thus it works without Standing Snipe.

I'm back to March and still don't see any comments on the topic from Perfect Chaos, lol. Did find this gem from LonelyGaruga though which might be worth discussing at some point. I totally use Wide Ilzan.

Man, I've posted like three updated lists like that since then in the Force thread. Wide Ilzan is currently what I recommend. And I don't feel like discussing this stuff with you anyway, not like you're gonna grasp it.

[Selphea]

That post is here, and with that I'm done too.

[LinkKD]

Sadly no.

Also, all bonuses are multiplicative, and latents imply the same requirements as what they are increasing (hitting break points or hitting with an elemental weakness, in this case)
No bonuses are added together. Such, elemental stance, elemental stance up, and your great strategic stance create an effect like 1.2 x 1.1 x 1.15 for a total bonus of 51.8% instead of the 45% one might expect

Yeah, I knew about the multiplicative bonuses, just was too lazy to math them up lol.

And meh >: was hoping I could get myself a working break stance build...not even because I don't want to spend all the money in a rainbow set, but...mostly because since I do one PA per weapon palette (I set the 3 PAs in the palettes to the same PA so I can use it whenever if I switch to that palette) that leaves no room to properly have two or more weapons fits in those 6 slots.

You're dead sure this has been tested? I can see why it's most likely it doesn't affect Break SD at all, given how the game works in general, but...ugh, the dream </3.

Really wish SEGA would either add a second set of 6 slots or just change the melee PA system to work like techs or ranged PAs (adding an extra button for that too). Feels dumb that I have to go around a limitation the game imposes on me just to get another limitation on my face lol.

[Perfect Chaos]

It's exactly as LonelyGaruga posted about the stance-related potentials. But even if they can work without the actual stance, using the (Great) Strategic Stance potential without the actual stance would still lose you a 1.32 multiplier on most targets, so it's still not a great idea, regardless. So it's sort of irrelevant if they can work separately, since it's best to stack multipliers on other multipliers with the same condition.

PS: I've already given up on trying to convince Gamemako of anything before I even started. LOL

EDIT: I'm curious, is the whole tech damage debate for any particular subclass? I'm too lazy to go back to confirm in the whole mess.

[Selphea]

For Fi xD

[Gamemako]

It's exactly as LonelyGaruga posted about the stance-related potentials. But even if they can work without the actual stance, using the (Great) Strategic Stance potential without the actual stance would still lose you a 1.32 multiplier on most targets, so it's still not a great idea, regardless. So it's sort of irrelevant if they can work separately, since it's best to stack multipliers on other multipliers with the same condition.

Was purely a matter of curiosity, given that you have BO with them either way for the PAs. If the potential did apply without the stance, though, it could technically be used as a cheap teching weapon for low-level alt classes-- but that's really not a realistic concern anyhow with red boots being better.

EDIT: I'm curious, the the whole tech damage debate for any particular subclass? I'm too lazy to go back to confirm in the whole mess.

FI or BR, either really. Both are going to have multipliers that apply to both types of damage, so there shouldn't be any significant difference between pure BO and BO/x. BO/HU would have no tech multipliers outside of Fury Combo and you'd have a hard time justifying any use of the techs.

Wouldn't call it much of a debate, either. It's more "I use x because irrelevant class skill that doesn't even involve the tech's damage, fuck you for asking."

For posterity, since no-one else here even seems to care, the aerial cast animation for techs with jet boots is 0.6 seconds (18 frames at 30FPS). It's kind of an important detail as to how and when you use techs, and it's not even mentioned here as yet. Inb4 LonelyGaruga posts about how he knew all along and couldn't be arsed to bring it up because it's somewhere in his 3000 postcount that everyone should have to read from top to bottom.

[LonelyGaruga]

PSO2 runs at 60fps...it's 0.3s. Casting animation speed is the same for all weapons bar wands, including barehanded.

And that is common knowledge.