Force Discussion

[Ryuhou]

Thanks. Ray it is then.

[milranduil]

Does it matter how fast the techs cast/if I have talis fast throw, or is the number of techs castable from a thrown talis limited to the same number always?

i think it has something to do with how long the thrown talis is out between charging/casting or something. you can fit 5 ragrants in for example, but your charge/JA timing has to be on point for that.

[nguuuquaaa]

That's weird, even uncharged casting can only net 4. I never once casted a 5th tech from a thrown talis, and I've used talis since the first day of playing FO.

Edit: Just test out, for some reason it's possible to stuff in 5th cast with Ragrants. I cannot even use other uncharged tech for the 5th cast, but charged Ragrants is possible. Someone sure code this game oddly.

[wssh]

5 cast ragrants

I've done 5 casts pretty consistently now. You can even do 5 cast ilbarta. I have casual -.63 second craft on ragrants too. But it's as mil says, it has something to do with how long your talis has been out between charges.

[nguuuquaaa]

My PC cannot handle all those effects in 12-person MPA without fps loss, so I never notice the 5th cast. Oh well, 4 casts are enough I guess.
I'll think the 5th cast as some form of exploit, since talis is intended to disappear after the 4th cast.

[Kokurokoki]

I currently have Tech JA Advance which gives me a 10% boost on damage when I JA with techs. Right now I currently have 8 points extra left over with 3 extra points I'll get from maxing out my force class.

Is it better to do a split investment and take those 10 points to invest in the lightning tree so that I have both Lightning and Fire trees, or would it be wiser to take those points and invest them into photon flare or something? And by split, I mean should I take my points from Tech JA and put them into the lightning tree so I have both 20% boosts?

[Sandmind]

I currently have Tech JA Advance which gives me a 10% boost on damage when I JA with techs. Right now I currently have 8 points extra left over with 3 extra points I'll get from maxing out my force class.

Is it better to do a split investment and take those 10 points to invest in the lightning tree so that I have both Lightning and Fire trees, or would it be wiser to take those points and invest them into photon flare or something? And by split, I mean should I take my points from Tech JA and put them into the lightning tree so I have both 20% boosts?

From personal experience back in EP1 and most of EP2, spliting points leave you weaker in the long run (generalist build in an era where FOTE's skill tree was the champion of wasting SP in useless skills). FO main is the one class that truly benefit from having multiple skill tree, so many people call shenanigan on the fact it's required for optimal damage output. Even if some element outshine other just due to their toolkit (like fire for mobbing).

Since multiplier multiply each other instead of being added together in this game, even missing out on a 10% can get huge.

From the way you described your skill tree, it sound like you're not using Talis Tech Bonus, so I will ignore it for the example below. And using a 50% fire Bert Rodan for the sake of Element Conversion and potential.

1.25 (EleConvert) x 1.20 x 1.20 (Fire 1&2) x 1.10 x 1.10 (Charge 1&2) x 1.16 (fire tech pot) x 1.20 (TE's EWH) x 1.20 (average elemental weakness for dual weakness like forest and insect darker) = 3,6381312

Adding the x 1.10 from JA = 4,00194432, which mean a difference of 0,36381312. We're seeing a good 36% difference when matching element. And I didn't take into account ring (3%) or the normal JA multiplier (30%)

If you don't have extra skill tree, then it's up to you if you want to get a 4th maxed element as FOTE and miss out on a 10% for the other 3 elments. Right now, the most relevant lightning weak content would be ... late stage XQ (cap as 70 and often extra weakness) or SHXHAQ? Even for a FOFI, we're talking about dropping a 10% to get instead a 20% (dual weak) or 30% (mono weak), but only for 1 element, leaving out 4 element still having to be covered by not matching.

Regarding Photon Flare, I don't personally view it as a good skill, it's only effective as a skill point dump after you maxed out everything else. It's arguably better than Tatk up 2 if you only got 3-4 SP left, but ice tree can get said Tatk up2 maxed (or normal tech advance). I prefer to not add an extra to my subpalettes when it's already filled with techs and skills.

[Kokurokoki]

From personal experience back in EP1 and most of EP2, spliting points leave you weaker in the long run (generalist build in an era where FOTE's skill tree was the champion of wasting SP in useless skills). FO main is the one class that truly benefit from having multiple skill tree, so many people call shenanigan on the fact it's required for optimal damage output. Even if some element outshine other just due to their toolkit (like fire for mobbing).

Since multiplier multiply each other instead of being added together in this game, even missing out on a 10% can get huge.

From the way you described your skill tree, it sound like you're not using Talis Tech Bonus, so I will ignore it for the example below. And using a 50% fire Bert Rodan for the sake of Element Conversion and potential.

1.25 (EleConvert) x 1.20 x 1.20 (Fire 1&2) x 1.10 x 1.10 (Charge 1&2) x 1.16 (fire tech pot) x 1.20 (TE's EWH) x 1.20 (average elemental weakness for dual weakness like forest and insect darker) = 3,6381312

Adding the x 1.10 from JA = 4,00194432, which mean a difference of 0,36381312. We're seeing a good 36% difference when matching element. And I didn't take into account ring (3%) or the normal JA multiplier (30%)

If you don't have extra skill tree, then it's up to you if you want to get a 4th maxed element as FOTE and miss out on a 10% for the other 3 elments. Right now, the most relevant lightning weak content would be ... late stage XQ (cap as 70 and often extra weakness) or SHXHAQ? Even for a FOFI, we're talking about dropping a 10% to get instead a 20% (dual weak) or 30% (mono weak), but only for 1 element, leaving out 4 element still having to be covered by not matching.

Regarding Photon Flare, I don't personally view it as a good skill, it's only effective as a skill point dump after you maxed out everything else. It's arguably better than Tatk up 2 if you only got 3-4 SP left, but ice tree can get said Tatk up2 maxed (or normal tech advance). I prefer to not add an extra to my subpalettes when it's already filled with techs and skills.

Hmm... So it would be better to just put my last 10 points into something else then like PP or Photon Flare? I pretty much have everything set with a basic Fire tree build. Not sure if burn boost is worth it so I didn't bother to get it.

I'm using a Fo/Fi build and want to use the lightning trees because they have good shock rates to proc Chase Advance. Do enemies have a higher chance of getting affected by the statuses of their weak elements? I noticed that Goldradhas and darkers get panicked far more easily than other non-weak mobs.

[Sandmind]

Hmm... So it would be better to just put my last 10 points into something else then like PP or Photon Flare? I pretty much have everything set with a basic Fire tree build. Not sure if burn boost is worth it so I didn't bother to get it.

I'm using a Fo/Fi build and want to use the lightning trees because they have good shock rates to proc Chase Advance. Do enemies have a higher chance of getting affected by the statuses of their weak elements? I noticed that Goldradhas and darkers get panicked far more easily than other non-weak mobs.

Yes, different monster races get different SE proc rate. They are usually tied with their elemental weakness, althought sub boss follow their own rule (example: mizer being mirage'able only and both caterdran being weak to freeze and poison).

Indidual SE boost rate are only 10%, not worth it. Since you're not using talis, then it's easier to scrap point together for PF boost (SE rate x 1.70 when maxed), tied to Photon Flare ofc, so an uptime of nearly 50% of the time. So, something like this? Left that 1 SP in rod shoot instead of rare mastery, but this is just a rough draft. Added Crazy Heart because it come in handy when it does proc.

Spoiler!

FI's Half line Boost can "easily" be proced using a full extra unit set and a spare weapon, depending on what your regular unit set give as hp. Cheapo affix would be a 15 atk and 45hp soul + stamina3 for 95hp by piece x 4 for 380hp, then special strike defense unit craft lv3 for 100hp all units for 680hp. Throw it on a 10* blue luxe dropping like candy from Gal Gryphon for set effect of 60hp (9* purple wing set is 50hp, cheaper affix cost also). For more hp, an XQ "alter serie" affix give 20 atk and 30hp, they are in very low demand, especially 2s or 3s one, or even 1s if they cost low enough to buy and you want to upslot from there. Best done alone or with a party who know what you're doing, since most FP/npc should be resta/star atomizer happy with you.

Edit:Facepalm, theory crafting late at night is bad, I was about to post this thing while forgetting all the time that weapon and units for hp would need to stay equipped to proc halfline boost. At least I now got an excuse to try and make an HP heavy affix on a Double unit set combined with an excube visual unit or whatever for my 2nd FO character. The stuff below is just legacy for the big number on SE.

Assuming you're using fire tech craft that doesn't reduce the SE (or boosted it in the case of wide rafoie), having both skill active would give base/efficient Foie with 20% x 2.00 (HLB) x 1.70 (PFB) = 68%. Both Rafoie and Safoie's Blazing recipe lv2 give 5% SE for 27% base or 91% rate when fully boosted. Blazing Gifoie lv2 boost the SE rate to 25% or 85%.Wide Rafoie get even sillier since it add 15% SE rate instead of 5%, for a base of 37% or 74% with HLB only (and 125% with PFB on top). You could easily open a fight with wide rafoie and TAJA to efficient Foie.

Be warned, the above is to optimize SE rate as FOFI and not to see if it's more effective to proc Chase Advance Plus all the time instead of hitting harder all the time and on boss not named rockbear. Most of those tech craft come with crappier demerit like increased pp cost or charge time (oh wait, that's blazing rafoie 2, wide offer you more PP cost or a little drop in damage when going for that 15% extra SE) on top of not having the best added damage craft or at all.

Taking a quick look at ice and lightning, they do offer tech and recipe that offer good base rate, hell both barta and rabarta more optimal recipe give good SE. Lightning option are ok and make them hang in the 34% to 37% SE base, but the lack of a good boss killer is sad.... oh wait, Zonde type-0 is a thing I always forget exist in the 1st place, depending on how good it is.

[Holysorceror]

Is there a shop in which I can buy tech spells? Or do I have to receive them as a drop, or purchase from player owned shops? Thank you for any helpful answers and for all of your time.